Gay Marriage: Traditional Marriage Predates State and Church

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Discussed to death in other threads. Yes, it’s great if a child can be raised by healthy, competent biological parents. However, there are millions of children with abusive parents, deceased parents, etc. who are far better off being raised by loving, committed adoptive gay parents than staying in a toxic family situation, or being raised by an institution.
[/quote]

This is a patently false self-serving post. There are no long-term studies to prove that children are better off living with two homosexuals. Furthermore, there is no proof that being homosexual is genetic. That means that perhaps (just maybe) children being raised by two homosexuals would have a much higher degree of becoming a homosexual. Certainly until we know how one becomes a homosexual (or why) we should never put children in the care of homosexuals.

Stop the propaganda forlife it’s really getting old.[/quote]

Not being a devils advocate, I am honestly curious, why does homosexuality=bad? [/quote]

It’s bad on a lot of levels, procreation probably being at the top of the list. But let’s look at the governments own CDC statistics shall we?

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

[/quote]

Wow, I was not aware of that. I am pretty libertarian, so I don’t personally feel its the governments business. Do you think legalizing gay marriage would see those statistics increase?
[/quote]

Don’t feel badly no one is aware of those ugly statistics. The PC media wants everyone to believe that homosexual men lead one big Will & Grace lifestyle. But the reality is quite the opposite. In fact, If it were not for male homosexuals there would be no AIDS epidemic. And that is a fact that the media and powerful homosexual organizations do not want you to know.

Two homosexuals saying they’re married does not change a thing. I can produce other statistics which clearly demonstrate that even in relationships where two homosexual say they are monogamous they each have 5 or 6 other sexual encounters on the side. And this also holds true for areas of the world where homosexual marriage has been legalized for many years, places like the Netherlands for example. In the Netherlands the rate of suicide, depression, anxiety and STD’s for homosexual men are as high as in areas where homosexual marriage is illegal. In other words Gay marriage solved nothing.
[/quote]

Those statistics are scary.

They are too busy desensitizing us to homosexuality. They certainly do not want to give us the facts.

Glee is a perfect example. A cute little singing and dancing show. It is total trash now. Not only are there two gay boys, there is two cheerleaders that sleep together. They trash conservatives and the Catholic Church regularly. I am disgusted with it.

22

[quote]cvb wrote:

Children need a mom and a dad. Both are extremely important.

[/quote]

I completely disagree with that, there are countless examples of people raised by single parents coming up fine /nitpicking

23

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Discussed to death in other threads. Yes, it’s great if a child can be raised by healthy, competent biological parents. However, there are millions of children with abusive parents, deceased parents, etc. who are far better off being raised by loving, committed adoptive gay parents than staying in a toxic family situation, or being raised by an institution.
[/quote]

This is a patently false self-serving post. There are no long-term studies to prove that children are better off living with two homosexuals. Furthermore, there is no proof that being homosexual is genetic. That means that perhaps (just maybe) children being raised by two homosexuals would have a much higher degree of becoming a homosexual. Certainly until we know how one becomes a homosexual (or why) we should never put children in the care of homosexuals.

Stop the propaganda forlife it’s really getting old.[/quote]

Not being a devils advocate, I am honestly curious, why does homosexuality=bad? [/quote]

It’s bad on a lot of levels, procreation probably being at the top of the list. But let’s look at the governments own CDC statistics shall we?

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

[/quote]

Wow, I was not aware of that. I am pretty libertarian, so I don’t personally feel its the governments business. Do you think legalizing gay marriage would see those statistics increase?
[/quote]

Don’t feel badly no one is aware of those ugly statistics. The PC media wants everyone to believe that homosexual men lead one big Will & Grace lifestyle. But the reality is quite the opposite. In fact, If it were not for male homosexuals there would be no AIDS epidemic. And that is a fact that the media and powerful homosexual organizations do not want you to know.

Two homosexuals saying they’re married does not change a thing. I can produce other statistics which clearly demonstrate that even in relationships where two homosexual say they are monogamous they each have 5 or 6 other sexual encounters on the side. And this also holds true for areas of the world where homosexual marriage has been legalized for many years, places like the Netherlands for example. In the Netherlands the rate of suicide, depression, anxiety and STD’s for homosexual men are as high as in areas where homosexual marriage is illegal. In other words Gay marriage solved nothing.
[/quote]

I was not aware of any of that, would you mind producing those stats? Another question, in the Netherlands did the rates of suicide, depression, anxiety, and STD’s for homosexual men change due to gay marriage being legalized?

24

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:

Children need a mom and a dad. Both are extremely important.

[/quote]

I completely disagree with that, there are countless examples of people raised by single parents coming up fine /nitpicking[/quote]

That does happen but the ideal situation is mom and dad. I want the best for my kids. Plenty of screwed up kids with two parents too. My boys needed me when they were young. Dad certainly couldn’t carry them for 9 months and breastfeed them. Those younger years, I was the primary parent. I have 3 teenage boys now. They really need a man to guide them. Talk to them about and showing them how to respect women. My daughter is 12. Dad spoils her but she comes to me when she started her period or has questions about her body. I take her to buy bras, dress and swimsuits. Much easier for her to talk to me than her father. Easier for the boys to talk to dad about certain things.

I taught the kids to cook, ski, read, math, manners and their religion. My husband taught my kids including daughter, how to split wood, shoot a gun and do some repairs around the house. We are two very different people and the kids benefit from both of us.

The problem is that with all this tolerance, we are settling for less than perfect.

25

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Discussed to death in other threads. Yes, it’s great if a child can be raised by healthy, competent biological parents. However, there are millions of children with abusive parents, deceased parents, etc. who are far better off being raised by loving, committed adoptive gay parents than staying in a toxic family situation, or being raised by an institution.
[/quote]

This is a patently false self-serving post. There are no long-term studies to prove that children are better off living with two homosexuals. Furthermore, there is no proof that being homosexual is genetic. That means that perhaps (just maybe) children being raised by two homosexuals would have a much higher degree of becoming a homosexual. Certainly until we know how one becomes a homosexual (or why) we should never put children in the care of homosexuals.

Stop the propaganda forlife it’s really getting old.[/quote]

Not being a devils advocate, I am honestly curious, why does homosexuality=bad? [/quote]

It’s bad on a lot of levels, procreation probably being at the top of the list. But let’s look at the governments own CDC statistics shall we?

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

[/quote]

Wow, I was not aware of that. I am pretty libertarian, so I don’t personally feel its the governments business. Do you think legalizing gay marriage would see those statistics increase?

Brother Chris, would you elaborate? I know a few gay people that would say it is completely natural. Also, Im aware of several versions (I can’t think of a better word to describe it) of natural law, I’m not well read enough to say they all go against gay marriage.
[/quote]

Apparently it’s so unnatural it’s existed since the dawn of mankind.

26

[quote]cvb wrote:

I’m not even reviewing the references because any suggestion that this earth is not under stress from our population is patently false. We’re not an endangered species by any means, but the earth, with it’s LIMITED resources, is certainly endangered. And my point was not relative to good parents, bad parents or gay parents, so let that strawman burn now.

27

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Discussed to death in other threads. Yes, it’s great if a child can be raised by healthy, competent biological parents. However, there are millions of children with abusive parents, deceased parents, etc. who are far better off being raised by loving, committed adoptive gay parents than staying in a toxic family situation, or being raised by an institution.
[/quote]

This is a patently false self-serving post. There are no long-term studies to prove that children are better off living with two homosexuals. Furthermore, there is no proof that being homosexual is genetic. That means that perhaps (just maybe) children being raised by two homosexuals would have a much higher degree of becoming a homosexual. Certainly until we know how one becomes a homosexual (or why) we should never put children in the care of homosexuals.

Stop the propaganda forlife it’s really getting old.[/quote]

Not being a devils advocate, I am honestly curious, why does homosexuality=bad? [/quote]

It’s bad on a lot of levels, procreation probably being at the top of the list. But let’s look at the governments own CDC statistics shall we?

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

[/quote]

Wow, I was not aware of that. I am pretty libertarian, so I don’t personally feel its the governments business. Do you think legalizing gay marriage would see those statistics increase?
[/quote]

Don’t feel badly no one is aware of those ugly statistics. The PC media wants everyone to believe that homosexual men lead one big Will & Grace lifestyle. But the reality is quite the opposite. In fact, If it were not for male homosexuals there would be no AIDS epidemic. And that is a fact that the media and powerful homosexual organizations do not want you to know.

Two homosexuals saying they’re married does not change a thing. I can produce other statistics which clearly demonstrate that even in relationships where two homosexual say they are monogamous they each have 5 or 6 other sexual encounters on the side. And this also holds true for areas of the world where homosexual marriage has been legalized for many years, places like the Netherlands for example. In the Netherlands the rate of suicide, depression, anxiety and STD’s for homosexual men are as high as in areas where homosexual marriage is illegal. In other words Gay marriage solved nothing.
[/quote]

I wasn’t aware we had an “aids epidemic”. If there is any myth here, it’s that we have an aids epidemic. We created that myth to scare people into funding the “war” against aids. The fact is, aids is pretty well contained to the risk groups, and not heterosexuals. Epidemic indeed.

28

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:
Our society is becoming too tolerant. They start teaching about homosexuality in elementary school. There are kids in my daughter’s middle school that say they are gay, lesbian, or bi-sexual. Come on, they are kids. Let them just enjoy their childhood.

Children need a mom and a dad. Both are extremely important.

[/quote]

You made a GREAT point. We have been accepting everything under the sun. Why though? Because it fits with our social movement. This has been discussed in other threads, but…why not incest? Or Pedophilia? Hey, if I’m BORN with a certain sexual attraction, is it REALLY my fault?[/quote]

Anything goes in our society. It might not be considered pedophilia but 12 and 13 year old children are having sex. It is disgusting. You have 12 year old boys addicted to porn. So their whole perception of sex is messed up before they are even in a loving relationship. [/quote]

Yeah. Because we didn’t have playboy’s and penthouse when we were 12. And the generations before that didn’t have girlie mags and porn. Try again.

29

[quote]cvb wrote:

The problem is that with all this tolerance, we are settling for less than perfect.[/quote]

And exactly when did “perfect” exist? I’m curious.

Perhaps while we’re waging this war against “tolerance”, maybe we could outlaw divorce, infidelity and all the other ugly realities of marriage and family.

30

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:

Children need a mom and a dad. Both are extremely important.

[/quote]

I completely disagree with that, there are countless examples of people raised by single parents coming up fine /nitpicking[/quote]

That does happen but the ideal situation is mom and dad. I want the best for my kids. Plenty of screwed up kids with two parents too. My boys needed me when they were young. Dad certainly couldn’t carry them for 9 months and breastfeed them. Those younger years, I was the primary parent. I have 3 teenage boys now. They really need a man to guide them. Talk to them about and showing them how to respect women. My daughter is 12. Dad spoils her but she comes to me when she started her period or has questions about her body. I take her to buy bras, dress and swimsuits. Much easier for her to talk to me than her father. Easier for the boys to talk to dad about certain things.

I taught the kids to cook, ski, read, math, manners and their religion. My husband taught my kids including daughter, how to split wood, shoot a gun and do some repairs around the house. We are two very different people and the kids benefit from both of us.

The problem is that with all this tolerance, we are settling for less than perfect.[/quote]

I’m with you for the most part, but for some people perfection is unattainable and reaching for it would ruin other aspects of their lives. Think about someone living in Bedstuy Brooklyn, working a couple of jobs to make ends meet and be able to feed and clothe their children, the time to properly raise those kids is probably incredibly hard to find.

^I just realized how far off topic that is, apologies.

I was raised by a single mother, and when I started acting like a jackass in middle school, I went to a military academy. That did the trick for me.

31

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:<<< Not being a devils advocate, I am honestly curious, why does homosexuality=bad[/quote]Because it is abominated and abhorred by the God who created man male and female. Every other reason, statistic, study etc. is entirely secondary to that.

32

From a religious perspective: When you follow the guidelines of a user’s manual for a given product, it results in a more satisfying experience with the product. Although it may not always make sense to the user, the manufacturer has a good reason for the guidelines that are given. I believe the Bible is a user’s manual for life. God has created us and understands our emotional, psychological, and physical needs better than we do. Basically, sin consists of things that are forbidden because they are damaging to us and are outside of the parameters in which we were designed to live. Marriage and sex were designed to be between man and woman, and thus anything outside of that is harmful in some way. I believe that homosexuals are not condemned by God for being attracted to members of the same sex, they are condemned for the homosexual acts they commit. Along the same lines, heterosexuals are not condemned for being attracted to members of the opposite sex but are in trouble if they engage in pre-marital sex or adultery. The temptation is not the sin. It becomes sin when we choose the wrong way of dealing with the temptation.

33

[quote]Train4sport wrote:
From a religious perspective: When you follow the guidelines of a user’s manual for a given product, it results in a more satisfying experience with the product. Although it may not always make sense to the user, the manufacturer has a good reason for the guidelines that are given. I believe the Bible is a user’s manual for life. God has created us and understands our emotional, psychological, and physical needs better than we do. Basically, sin consists of things that are forbidden because they are damaging to us and are outside of the parameters in which we were designed to live. Marriage and sex were designed to be between man and woman, and thus anything outside of that is harmful in some way. I believe that homosexuals are not condemned by God for being attracted to members of the same sex, they are condemned for the homosexual acts they commit. Along the same lines, heterosexuals are not condemned for being attracted to members of the opposite sex but are in trouble if they engage in pre-marital sex or adultery. The temptation is not the sin. It becomes sin when we choose the wrong way of dealing with the temptation. [/quote]

Can you provide me the reference from the user’s manual that endorses the institution of marriage as practiced in our culture.

34

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:<<< Not being a devils advocate, I am honestly curious, why does homosexuality=bad[/quote]Because it is abominated and abhorred by the God who created man male and female. Every other reason, statistic, study etc. is entirely secondary to that.
[/quote]

God doesn’t exist. You had a psychotic episode years ago. Get over it.

35

[quote]Train4sport wrote:
From a religious perspective: When you follow the guidelines of a user’s manual for a given product, it results in a more satisfying experience with the product. Although it may not always make sense to the user, the manufacturer has a good reason for the guidelines that are given. I believe the Bible is a user’s manual for life. God has created us and understands our emotional, psychological, and physical needs better than we do. Basically, sin consists of things that are forbidden because they are damaging to us and are outside of the parameters in which we were designed to live. Marriage and sex were designed to be between man and woman, and thus anything outside of that is harmful in some way. I believe that homosexuals are not condemned by God for being attracted to members of the same sex, they are condemned for the homosexual acts they commit. Along the same lines, heterosexuals are not condemned for being attracted to members of the opposite sex but are in trouble if they engage in pre-marital sex or adultery. The temptation is not the sin. It becomes sin when we choose the wrong way of dealing with the temptation. [/quote]

Prove existence of your sky wizard, or cease using arguments based on his existence.

36

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< God doesn’t exist. You had a psychotic episode years ago. Get over it.[/quote]I’ll tell Him you said so though I’m pretty sure He already knows. Do know that you continue to be in my prayers. [quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< Prove existence of your sky wizard, or cease using arguments based on his existence.[/quote]You don’t get to command people what arguments they choose to put forward. What a free thinker you are huh? Ask yourself why you just CANNOT leave us deluded fanatics alone and go do your thing?

37

There is no evidence that allowing gay marriage negatively affects social perceptions of marriage or habits of heterosexuals w/r/t marriage.

38

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< God doesn’t exist. You had a psychotic episode years ago. Get over it.[/quote]I’ll tell Him you said so though I’m pretty sure He already knows. Do know that you continue to be in my prayers. [quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< Prove existence of your sky wizard, or cease using arguments based on his existence.[/quote]You don’t get to command people what arguments they choose to put forward. What a free thinker you are huh? Ask yourself why you just CANNOT leave us deluded fanatics alone and go do your thing?
[/quote]

You’ll telepathically notify your omniscient Zeus ripoff for me? Thanks bud, that totally makes sense! Oh, and you’ll pray too - maybe if you ask him real nice he’ll change his eternal plan for you.

Oh wait, that makes no sense either.

But you’re not worried about making sense, you deluded fanatics are waaaay too busy trying to dictate who other people fuck because you think the invisible man in the sky doesn’t want them to.

39

[quote]ZEB wrote:
homosexual men lead one big Will & Grace lifestyle.
[/quote]

Lol, anyone ever see the statistics on domestic and sexual abuse in homosexual households? Anyone see the average marriage length between gay couples?

40

And yes, I get to “command” that a claim requires proof, and, lacking such proof, any conclusions based on that claim are to be ignored.