T Nation

Gains

Are they really that hard to keep after a cycle ? Im mostly worried about my bicep size, i dont want to lose those. Im on my first cycle and i want to know if putting my liver through this is worth it. how do you guys keep your gains ? (without doing another cycle)

Alot of the “gains” people experience on a cycle are just water retention from the aromatization of the steriod. These “gains” disappear quickly after a cycle is finished.

What is left can be maintained with a significant amount of effort. What you do as far as diet, pct will greatly effect how much you keep. The period after your cycle is as critical as the discipline you had while on a cycle, if you want to have anything long term to show for it.

There are other tricks as well, for example using cretine, after the cycle, to keep some the weight on for a little while longer, hoping to shift the body’s (homostasis) setpoint. I also had a recent positive experience using IGF shortly after PCT in a attempt to keep gains.

As far a liver damage, as I understand it, this is primarly an issue with methylated compounds in oral steriods. I have no experience with this but oral only gains have a reputation for being difficult to maintain.

Personally I am skeptical of the folks that report gaining 20lbs and keeping 17 of it from one cycle. You will probably find that your kept gains will be MUCH more modest.

Well i understand the risks of liver damage with an oral, but will i be ok with say…1 a day of methyl-drol for 6 weeks with proper pct ? i just dont want to get big and then loose it all. cause then putting my body through that would be pointless

[quote]Monkey23 wrote:
Are they really that hard to keep after a cycle ? Im mostly worried about my bicep size, i dont want to lose those. Im on my first cycle and i want to know if putting my liver through this is worth it. how do you guys keep your gains ? (without doing another cycle)[/quote]

These are questions you should know the answer to BEFORE you start taking AAS

If you are worried about effects the juice will have on the liver, then get off the orals. Besides that, you typically have to take much more orals in order to keep a consist level of the substance.

Other options would be shooting juice if you don’t mind needles. Something like test or eq would be beneficial. EQ is great if you want to run about 400 mills of that by itself. It doesn’t have nearly the side effects of test and builds the muscle at a much more gradual weight. You won’t see as much results on it but you will keep a lot more of what you gained when you come off.

Just make sure you have a great pct. Either way, I would stay away from the orals if all you want to do is gain alittle and keep it. Injections tend to be not nearly as harsh on the liver. And depending on the test ester you use, the liver will break it down gradually and not all at once verses orals like you mentioned. Because the esters will be stored in your tissue and released at a slower rate.

One other great pct drug worth using is clenbutoral or however you spell it. It virtually has minimal side effects if any assuming you take a normal dosage because it isn’t a hormone. But the nitrogen it helps keep in your muscle will help maintain the gains. Thus, it is a great choice to include in your pct.

[quote]beatthemax wrote:
One other great pct drug worth using is clenbutoral or however you spell it. It virtually has minimal side effects if any assuming you take a normal dosage because it isn’t a hormone. But the nitrogen it helps keep in your muscle will help maintain the gains. Thus, it is a great choice to include in your pct.[/quote]

minimal sides except the pesky issues of cardiac cell death, chronic insomnia, anxiety etc.

[quote]beatthemax wrote:
If you are worried about effects the juice will have on the liver, then get off the orals. Besides that, you typically have to take much more orals in order to keep a consist level of the substance.

Other options would be shooting juice if you don’t mind needles. Something like test or eq would be beneficial. EQ is great if you want to run about 400 mills of that by itself. It doesn’t have nearly the side effects of test and builds the muscle at a much more gradual weight. You won’t see as much results on it but you will keep a lot more of what you gained when you come off.

Just make sure you have a great pct. Either way, I would stay away from the orals if all you want to do is gain alittle and keep it. Injections tend to be not nearly as harsh on the liver. And depending on the test ester you use, the liver will break it down gradually and not all at once verses orals like you mentioned. Because the esters will be stored in your tissue and released at a slower rate. [/quote]

injectable steroids are usually easy on the liver because they are not 17aa, not due to rate of de-esterification which actually occurs in the blood.

[quote]Monkey23 wrote:
Are they really that hard to keep after a cycle ? Im mostly worried about my bicep size, i dont want to lose those. Im on my first cycle and i want to know if putting my liver through this is worth it. how do you guys keep your gains ? (without doing another cycle)[/quote]

With good post cycle therapy, you will keep 95% of your gains :slight_smile:

Thanks,
Advanced-Stealth

Well thanks, i was just wondering about all of this because of my age.

First off imo a test taper should help ensure your gains sticking alot better (this one’s been discussed before so just look it up). After the test taper something like torimifene (sp?) and maybe and a few otc products/ herbs like fenugreek, stinging nettle root, potency wood along with something like retain or ps for cortisol control is a good idea (larger doses of vitamin c might help to a degree with that too).

Yes igf-1 and other peptides or even hgh will probably = less gains coming off a cycle as well. That’s where you have to decide how much you want to spend$? Otherwise cutting back your training volume. NOT TRYING TO CUT and continuing EATING ALOT while still training hard (just not as often or perhaps as long) should help.

Also lots of sleep and obviously no smoking drinking and whoring yourself around till the early hours of the morning!

Something else to consider. If you were not meant to weigh 250 lbs but got there using aas then chances are when you go off your body will go back to where it’s set point is (say 235). The only way to change that is with compound like hgh/igf which can create new muscle cells and in a sense reset your genetic setpoint.

BTW, clen is a really sucky compound IMO and there are ALOT of better things to use pct. However if you where set on using it I’ve noticed some guys using albuterol instead and saying it’s not as harsh and works pretty well. I’d opt to not use either.

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