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Gains on TRT

Hey guys just wondering how your strength gains been since on trt? Have you put on any mass?. If you can right the dose your taking height and weight before and after trt would like to see how other progress has been

I’ve gained as much strength and muscle as I probably would have before I had low t. I had been working out as much as I could before trt, and was basically gaining nothing. So just to be able to be back to where I normally would be if I had normal test levels, is great.

Great question. I wish I had crazy gains to speak of but that simply isn’t the case. Prior to TRT I always felt flat and my pump from training lasted only as long as it took me to walk out of the gym. I’m 6 ft 3 and weigh 215 lbs. My body fat is quite low at about 12%. Since TRT I am noticeably harder and more vascular however my strength gains are slow and steady as they were prior to low T. It should be noted that I am on a “low dose” at 60mg/week. Guys on higher doses may have better physical gains but all in all I am pleased with the physical benefit I am experiencing from TRT.

I can only comment on the last ~2 months on TRT but there are certainly gains.

I trained prior to TRT and now notice that I can train more frequently while on TRT. I’m 6’ now 200# and have a high TRT dose of 200mg per week. Just following the Dr’s suggestion since I’m new to this, (yes I’ve read the stickies). I think since starting I’ve put on at least 5-7# of muscle and yet seem leaner and waist is slightly smaller if anything. As previously suggested, much more vascular. Probably most beneficial, fitness-wise, is the ability to train more often and recover better/faster. That must led to gains…

Thanks for the answers just wondering what others progress was keep up the good work gentlemen!

The biggest gain i noticed was in the energy to get my ass to the gym.

You’ll gain about like a person with normal natural testosterone will gain. Nothing magical at trt doses.

There is a similar thread Training on TRT where I outline the same program. If you have a great diet and training program and previously had low T and that was the limiting factor for gains you will certainly see results in size and strength. The problem is few people have the right diet and training program so putting TRT in the mix does relatively little.

A program that will work…

Train 5-6 times a week for a maximum of 1 hour each time with a high level of intensity. A routine like the below will give you the fastest gains once you get your basic foundation back. Depending on your current condition you may need to go slow for the first 2-3 months to build a basic foundation and get comfortable with the exercises.

Routine:

  • Warm up 2 sets of your first exercise then do 3 to 5 exercises for 3 to 5 sets each. (large body parts like legs and back on the high end of the range and smaller body parts like biceps on the low end).

  • Rep range from 6-12 most sets should be about 10 reps to failure or 1 rep shy. Find a spotter for a couple forced reps on select exercises.

  • Workouts should never be longer than 1hr and be high intensity the entire time. Rest between 1-3 min between sets (Closer to 3min after heavy squats or other intense compound movements closer to 1min for curls and similar)

  • With TRT I now can train each bodypart once every 5-6 days. Prior to TRT I would do one bodypart a week. Depending on your recovery see what works best.

  • This is a good schedule: Day 1: Chest, Day 2: Back, Day 3: Shoulders, Day 4: Arms, Day 5: Legs, Day 6: Rest then start again. Now I just keep going and put in a rest day when I feel I need it. If you want to stay on a 7 day cycle so everything is always trained on the same day put another rest day between back and Shoulders.

  • Keep protein intake at ~1 to 1.5 grams per pound bodyweight split into about 5 meals if you can. Take ~30 grams right after working out. I find Creatine is also helpful and take 5 grams when I get up in the morning and 5 grams after I lift.

  • Stick with the basic exercises and hit every set hard.

What works well…

Chest: Bench Press, Flat Dumbbell Press, Incline Dumbbells.

Shoulders: Seated barbell Press, Upright Rows, Shrugs, Dumbbell Overhead Presses, Dumbbell side laterals.

Arms: Bar Curls, Preacher Curls, Dumbbell Curls, Triceps Extensions, Pushdowns, Close Grip Bench, Dips.

Back: Pull-ups, Long Pulley Rows, T Bar Rows, One Arm Dumbbell Rows, Dead lifts.

Legs: Squats, Hack Squats, Leg Presses, Leg Curls, Leg Extensions.

For all bodyparts - Hammer Strength machines are also effective to mix things up.

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I was on trt for 4 months and did bench press, leg extensions, leg curls, curls, over head press. I noticed I got more cut. No real strength increase or mass. I was taking in 3000-400 cals/daily. Now a year later and I started a 5x5. I notice more size, strength, and mass. I gained 5lbs. in 4-5 weeks. Again I try to get 3000-4000 cals/daily.

If you like having kidneys, avoid the 1-2g protein/lb body weight bodybuilding mantra. Just maintain protein intake throughout the day and use small amounts of whey immediately following a workout.

And what scientific report do you base your comment that 1-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight would damage your kidneys? If that was true we would have a tremendous amount of people in the hospital including myself as I have been doing that for 30 years.

That comment is simply not true. That is the same type of comment as saying TRT gives you cancer - Just not true and not helpful.

When I started at the gym in October, I could only bench 185 lbs for 4 reps. 5 months later: Last weekend I benched 225 for 2 reps. Skull crushers: I started out doing 65 lbs for about 10 reps. Now I am doing 10-12 reps with 95 lbs. Cardio wise, when I started, I could only “mentally” do 15 minutes on an elliptical. I physically could have done more but mentally, I hated it. It was drudgery.

Today my wife and I did a 30 minute cardio kickboxing class and after that I did another 20 minutes on an elliptical. I’ve done up to 50 minutes of cardio on elliptical or treadmill and it’s not that bad. I mentally have adapted to the cardio stress. I suppose it has to do with more stamina or mental toughness.

Like Ned said above, one of the greatest increases has been motivation to go to the gym.

The greatest changes of all on TRT have been less irritability, more patience, more energy, better concentration, less sleep, & greater joy in life. I laugh out loud at things now where before I barely would even smirk. My wife has noticed these changes the most and that I am a much better husband and father.

And ya can’t discount that the sex life has gotten better. If my wife was game, I’d take her 3-4 times per week. But the 1 or 2 times a week we do it, it’s phenomenal. So, yeah, my penis has gotten a lot stronger. Ha ha.

[quote]2Bstronger wrote:
And what scientific report do you base your comment that 1-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight would damage your kidneys? If that was true we would have a tremendous amount of people in the hospital including myself as I have been doing that for 30 years.

That comment is simply not true. That is the same type of comment as saying TRT gives you cancer - Just not true and not helpful.

[/quote]

Targeting chemokines in proteinuria-induced renal disease. Excessive protein leads to excess protein getting past the podocytes in the glomeruli. The proximal tubule cells can absorb and process this excess up to a point. When the cells become stressed and filled with more junk they send out mediators that produce inflammation. Inflammation attracts immune cells that destroy nephrons. It’s a slow but real process and can lead to chronic kidney disease.

30 years or more is what it takes to know whether you’ve been affected or not. If you visit a dialysis clinic oddly enough you’ll meet a lot of ex-bodybuilders. So no they aren’t necessarily dead but I bet they feel like it sometimes.

This is an ongoing debate and after a ton of biology, pathophysiology studies I’m convinced that it is a RISK. If you could see how your kidneys handled the protein load it wouldn’t be a risk but you can’t. Even creatinine and BUN tests are so vague you won’t know until you’re close to the 3 or 4th stage of kidney disease.

There are folks on both sides of this debate and I appreciate your viewpoint as I was with you on it for over 15 years. However, knowing what I know now, I believe moderation and timing is better than blindly dumping protein into my system. I think the jury is still out because retrieving the data and having definitive proof would be difficult without killing the members of the study.

C27 H40 O3 I am curious about where you get your information from as it is always informative and well written. Is it from researching the subject matter or do you have training in the area?

[quote]Hook24 wrote:
C27 H40 O3 I am curious about where you get your information from as it is always informative and well written. Is it from researching the subject matter or do you have training in the area?[/quote]

I work in healthcare and am intending to eventually get into med school. It’s a stretch since I’m almost 40 but I think I still have it in me. I get my information from MEDLINE, a research search engine that I have access to because of the educational institution I am affiliated with. It’s very helpful because Google can be somewhat limiting.

I took an interest in endocrine systems when I have difficulty with it myself but I’m fairly well versed on many other disease processes as well. I could take biology courses for the rest of my life while most classmates absolutely hate it.

To be clear - you have absolutely no study you can point to that says taking 1-2 grams of protein a day will damage your kidneys. Using big words that most people do not understand like “chemokines in proteinuria-induced renal disease” to add creditability to your inaccurate statement does not help.

Just use a little common sense. Below is my typical diet for a 165lb bodybuilder

7:00am Breakfast ? OJ, Oatmeal & Greek Yogurt ~25grams
10am Snack ? Nuts ~10g
1pm Lunch ? Turkey Sandwich ~35g
4pm PM Snack ? Nuts & Snack Bar ~35g
6pm - Lift
7pm - After Lifting Whey Protein Shake ~35g
8:30pm Dinner ? Salmon, Broccoli, Sweet Potato ~40g
11pm Bed
TOTAL PROTEIN 180 Grams

So does anyone believe the people who eat like the above are headed for kidney failure - of course not. Your suggestion is a diet like above causes can cause kidney damage is not logical. Many, many times the above intake would be required to cause Kidney damage in an otherwise healthy person. If you eat 100 bananas a day you will also have a problem.

My apologies to the OP.

"30 years or more is what it takes to know whether you’ve been affected or not. If you visit a dialysis clinic oddly enough you’ll meet a lot of ex-bodybuilders. So no they aren’t necessarily dead but I bet they feel like it sometimes. "

Your hypothesis based on the evidence of ex-bodybuilders in dialysis clinic which is resultant from a high protein diet is full of correlational errors. Most of the kidney damage done is from long term high blood pressure from excessive use of high dose testosterone and the like.

-Every One Is Different-
I personally know an athlete that had a kidney removed resulting from creatine use. He was trying to put on weight for the NFL draft and used creatine for two months. His kidneys could not process it like an average person. He should have consulted a dietitian/coach because his family history has MORE people with hereditary kidney disease than don’t. I believe he had two meals a day that contained animal protein the rest was mostly grain.
Maybe I should follow my great-grandfathers life style that allowed him to live a full and active life up until an accident at 92. His day started with a jigger of gin in his coffee, go to the office, lunch of coffee with meat on white bread. Whiskey sour at home and something fried with dinner. Oh, I forgot to include the pack of Chesterfields a day.
To repeat, Every One Is Different.
Phileaux

2bstronger, I actually agree your diet looks pretty sensible. I primarily meant excess intake like the guy that has 3 scoops of whey 3x/day. I meant to say 1.5-2. Your intake is just over 1g and the fast absorbing whey is timed right. That’s pretty much how I eat now actually.

The study title is the first sentence of my post. It details the response to excessive protein and chronic damage.

To be clear, I didn’t state that it’s the only cause of kidney damage or that it causes acute kidney failure which is entirely different. Just that it pays to know how these things work for long term. It’s a risk just like HTN, diabetes, infections, etc are for kidneys.

Again thanks for the responses as goes for my lift I do
Monday chest/tris flat bench/decline/incline dumbbell on a flat bench. For tris skull crusher, I used a dumbbell over my head, behind my back for forgot what it’s called, then Tri extensions and this chest/Tri machine
Dips if I still got the strength

Tuesday back/bis deadlifts, idk if this is the real name but Thor’s hammer, pull ups, and another lower back lift I can’t remember the name(you hold a weight and your legs are locked in you and you down then up. Then I drop set 70 pounds 3 times 5-6 reps. Light dumbbell curls( arms are usually almost dead after drop set) then another arm curl machine

Wednesday legs/shoulders squats, legs press. Calve raises shoulders I do dumbbell press, barbell over shoulders shrugs and a random shoulder machine

Then I take and day off and repeat till the weekend. I weight 152 5,9 12-13 percent body fat I guess I’ll find out for myself about the gains thanks for the responses! Hope my regime will be successful just
Gotta do a little more cardio and diet!

Recently got a bodpod again. I had one done a year ago and was running alot for a climb (25 miles/wk and 2 full-body sessions/wk) so I was down to 185#, 14.5% BF…and I was pretty happy with that. Then last fall, after working out fairly consistently over the summer I took 5 over the course of 2 weeks. All were consistent, 190# and 16% BF. Not happy but not surprised since I was tieed a lot…

In Feb I didn’t repeat just before TRT but I think i was in the same state as last fall. Now after 10 weeks, 200#, 13% BF. No real change in diet, certainly worked out more since I recovered better and had more energy, but also I really have not done cardio during this time. I have occasionally done some CF metcons (maybe 1-2 times a week) for cardio but nothing consistent. I’m happy with those numbers, gains, which i think are very closely tied, if not entirely do to, the TRT.