T Nation

Gaining while Losing

Before anyone yells ‘Use the search function!’ i wana be involved in the discussion not jsut read other peoples opinions.

I’ve been dieting for about a month and according to the scales i dropped around 11lbs.

Anyway i kinda figured these scales are inaccurate as ever time i use them they change (i mean instantly).

I invested in some more expensive digital scales and i was 6lbs heavier which i am fine with.

Whats confusing me is that i’ve lost 5 inches off my waist and my upper body is looking

slightly leaner. Now i’ve heard the arguments about cals in vs cals out and that you can’t gain

while your dieting. Im around 235lbs and my cals have been around 2000 or less a day, low carb

high proetin, medium fat. Using L-Leucine and BCAAs around my workout, taking an ECA stack

as well. My lifts haven’t gone down at all in fact some have gone up.

Any ideas whats going on? Am i maintaining/gaining muscle due to my peri/post workout nutriton?

Then burning fat the rest of the time?

Cheers guys.

sounds like the holy grail to me…im curious if ppl chime in with knowledge on the ‘why’

[quote]bignate wrote:
sounds like the holy grail to me…im curious if ppl chime in with knowledge on the ‘why’ [/quote]

Well thats what i was thinking, normally when i’ve dieted in the past i can normally easily lose

20lbs in 4 weeks. I guess i was losing muscle then as i wasn’t using aminos. Maybe i’m holding

muscle this time hence the waist reduction but the little change in weight.

This is a back shot.

They are 6 weeks, apart. I weighed the same in both around 235. However 2 weeks after the right
picture i gained to 245 then cut back down to 235 which is where i am now. The left picture is

around 3 weeks into my diet.

Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand?

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand? [/quote]

The low calories that confusing the hell out of me, if im eating 2000 or less cals a day,

working out and weight 235 how can i be gaining? My BMR should be 3000 or so, if my basic

function use 2500-3000 cals how can i be gaining muscle with 2000 or less?

I’ve done it before, lost some inches off the waist (and pounds off my weight) while still increasing arm size. As to why exactly, I don’t know but I wish I did. I think it is pretty possible to gain size while losing fat, as long as you aren’t already really lean or fairly advanced when you try it. Someone whos only been lifting for a year or so without visible abs will likely be able to drop some bodyfat while still getting stronger/bigger.

Just a note though: losing 5 inches off your waist will definitely make your upper body appear leaner, because well it is. Im assuming your talking about losing 5 inches while only dropping the 10 lbs you did, making you think you are gaining muscle. Though 11 lbs in a month could be some water weight/bloat loss, which would make your waist shrink without actually losing fat. Still have some fat loss/waist shrinkage, but it might not be 5 “permanant” inches.

[quote]fisch wrote:
I’ve done it before, lost some inches off the waist (and pounds off my weight) while still increasing arm size. As to why exactly, I don’t know but I wish I did. I think it is pretty possible to gain size while losing fat, as long as you aren’t already really lean or fairly advanced when you try it. Someone whos only been lifting for a year or so without visible abs will likely be able to drop some bodyfat while still getting stronger/bigger.

Just a note though: losing 5 inches off your waist will definitely make your upper body appear leaner, because well it is. Im assuming your talking about losing 5 inches while only dropping the 10 lbs you did, making you think you are gaining muscle. Though 11 lbs in a month could be some water weight/bloat loss, which would make your waist shrink without actually losing fat. Still have some fat loss/waist shrinkage, but it might not be 5 “permanant” inches.[/quote]

I see what your getting at, but ive been working out for 10 years or so, so these aren’t newb

gains as some would say. I past that point a long time ago.

probably water weight.

lets face it, for a drug free lifter over the noob gains… you CAN NOT gain muscle while cutting/deficit.

anyone who tells you otherwise is either straight up lying or trying to sell you a shitty supplement.

the only “holy grail” left in our world is hot lesbians and a 1953 fender stratocaster.

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand? [/quote]

The low calories that confusing the hell out of me, if im eating 2000 or less cals a day,

working out and weight 235 how can i be gaining? My BMR should be 3000 or so, if my basic

function use 2500-3000 cals how can i be gaining muscle with 2000 or less?
[/quote]

You’re hitting your protein needs for gaining while keeping carbs low and training hard. If you weren’t triggering a need to grow you wouldn’t be gaining…switch all your workouts to 3 sets of 1t and you won’t gain anymore

You’re creating an enviornment in your body that wants to gain by push weights and giving the muscles what they need…hit the P requirement and you’re gonna grow…

Pretty simple

[quote]hanban wrote:
probably water weight.

lets face it, for a drug free lifter over the noob gains… you CAN NOT gain muscle while cutting/deficit.

anyone who tells you otherwise is either straight up lying or trying to sell you a shitty supplement.

the only “holy grail” left in our world is hot lesbians and a 1953 fender stratocaster.[/quote]

Well thats what i thought, maybe im just holding the muscle that was there, and its an

illusion. If it was water weight i find it hard that 6-11lbs would amount to 5 inches.

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand? [/quote]

The low calories that confusing the hell out of me, if im eating 2000 or less cals a day,

working out and weight 235 how can i be gaining? My BMR should be 3000 or so, if my basic

function use 2500-3000 cals how can i be gaining muscle with 2000 or less?
[/quote]

You’re hitting your protein needs for gaining while keeping carbs low and training hard. If you weren’t triggering a need to grow you wouldn’t be gaining…switch all your workouts to 3 sets of 1t and you won’t gain anymore

You’re creating an enviornment in your body that wants to gain by push weights and giving the muscles what they need…hit the P requirement and you’re gonna grow…

Pretty simple[/quote]

Sounds pretty simple when you put it like that!

quality of cals is a big thing imo. generally when im dieting i change to all ‘clean’ foods. I also eat more whole food proteins rather than relying on shakes.

[quote]hanban wrote:
probably water weight.

lets face it, for a drug free lifter over the noob gains… you CAN NOT gain muscle while cutting/deficit.

anyone who tells you otherwise is either straight up lying or trying to sell you a shitty supplement.

the only “holy grail” left in our world is hot lesbians and a 1953 fender stratocaster.[/quote]

okay so i cant prove that muscle gains can be made while dieting, but I’ve experienced it recently. dropping from 255 to 235ish i focused a lot on my traps and they are noticably bigger.

but I also still haven’t dropped under 3000 cals a day (was eating 4000ish at 255)

I also when from shrugging 245 to shrugging in the 400s when i invested in straps so this massive jump in weight definitely helped.

but anyways to say it’s impossible is kinda dumb in my opinion. what about all those leangains kids
seems like a few of them are leaner stronger and bigger than before they started fasting?

IMO this is what’s happening…

You’re eating enough calories foryoue body to gain muscle right now but not enough to gain fat. Whatever you were at before was too many calories for you.

Keep everything the same for a couple more weeks and see where you’re at. Keep it up man!

EDIT: basically what Ct Rock said.

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Before anyone yells ‘Use the search function!’ i wana be involved in the discussion not jsut read other peoples opinions.

I’ve been dieting for about a month and according to the scales i dropped around 11lbs.

Anyway i kinda figured these scales are inaccurate as ever time i use them they change (i mean instantly).

I invested in some more expensive digital scales and i was 6lbs heavier which i am fine with.

Whats confusing me is that i’ve lost 5 inches off my waist and my upper body is looking

slightly leaner. Now i’ve heard the arguments about cals in vs cals out and that you can’t gain

while your dieting. Im around 235lbs and my cals have been around 2000 or less a day, low carb

high proetin, medium fat. Using L-Leucine and BCAAs around my workout, taking an ECA stack

as well. My lifts haven’t gone down at all in fact some have gone up.

Any ideas whats going on? Am i maintaining/gaining muscle due to my peri/post workout nutriton?

Then burning fat the rest of the time?

Cheers guys. [/quote]

If you go by the vast majority on this site, Its impossible to gain muscle while losing fat. But yet, real world people from all walks of life do it all the time. MMA fighters do it all the time. Frank Mir has done it, I have done it, many guys i know through out the years have done it.

[quote]gregron wrote:
IMO this is what’s happening…

You’re eating enough calories foryoue body to gain muscle right now but not enough to gain fat. Whatever you were at before was too many calories for you.

Keep everything the same for a couple more weeks and see where you’re at. Keep it up man!

EDIT: basically what Ct Rock said.[/quote]

Seems i have found a so called ‘sweet spot!’

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand? [/quote]

If it was as simplistic as you make it seem there would be a lot shredded/ripped people walking around.

[quote]zonaguy10 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand? [/quote]

If it was as simplistic as you make it seem there would be a lot shredded/ripped people walking around.[/quote]

*shredded/big

[quote]zonaguy10 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Pretty smple man

Your protein is high…building muscle

You’re taking bcaas…protein…muscle

Low carb and eca stack…getting lean

What’s not to understand? [/quote]

If it was as simplistic as you make it seem there would be a lot shredded/ripped people walking around.[/quote]

the concepts are actually pretty simple… executing it consistently? Thats another story.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Before anyone yells ‘Use the search function!’ i wana be involved in the discussion not jsut read other peoples opinions.

I’ve been dieting for about a month and according to the scales i dropped around 11lbs.

Anyway i kinda figured these scales are inaccurate as ever time i use them they change (i mean instantly).

I invested in some more expensive digital scales and i was 6lbs heavier which i am fine with.

Whats confusing me is that i’ve lost 5 inches off my waist and my upper body is looking

slightly leaner. Now i’ve heard the arguments about cals in vs cals out and that you can’t gain

while your dieting. Im around 235lbs and my cals have been around 2000 or less a day, low carb

high proetin, medium fat. Using L-Leucine and BCAAs around my workout, taking an ECA stack

as well. My lifts haven’t gone down at all in fact some have gone up.

Any ideas whats going on? Am i maintaining/gaining muscle due to my peri/post workout nutriton?

Then burning fat the rest of the time?

Cheers guys. [/quote]

If you go by the vast majority on this site, Its impossible to gain muscle while losing fat. But yet, real world people from all walks of life do it all the time. MMA fighters do it all the time. Frank Mir has done it, I have done it, many guys i know through out the years have done it.
[/quote]

For most, gaining muscle and losing weight simultaneously is not realistic. I’ve had the opportunity to work with a sports nutritionist at a major university. I’ve listened to countless stories of athletes struggling to put on muscle about how they eat 2.0 g/lb of protein and take X amount of BCAAs and do morning cardio after consuming caffeine all in an effort to gain muscle while losing fat. Then after explaining to them the simple concept of eating enough calories for an anabolic process to occur their strength and weight started magically going up. You’d swear that it was some earth shattering concept.