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Gaining Mass on Keto


#1

I’ll be the first to agree that ketogenic are not the most optimal way to build muscle but in my circumstances i want to give it a try. I have many health problems including autoimmune disorders that make my joints ache like crazy but on the keto diet it helps amazingly. My question is, does protein need to go up when you add calories to gain mass? How much is too much to keep you in ketosis while staying in true ketosis?


#2

Your question is bizzarly formed, but I think you’re asking how much protein you can consume without coming out of Keto. The answer to that is specific to the person. I can’t eat more than 30% of calories form protein.

Keto and gaining muscle isn’t very conducive. You really need carbs to get the intensity in workouts.

I might get a good workout in once a week, where I actually feel good. Other days it’s just putting the work in.


#3

Yeah that’s what I meant thanks. So If i’m taking in about 3000 calories, 30 % of that coming from protein won’t put me out of ketosis?


#4

That’s not what I said. I said:

Do you have much experience in Keto? Slowly bump up your protein intake and see what happens.


#5

9000 cal. Give or take a k

No, not joking.


#6

Yes but I’ve done it on lower calories so 20-30% of my calories didn’t but my protein very high. I didn’t know if I needed to keep raising it as I raised my total calories or keep the protein the same


#7

IFBB Pro Jon Anderson says he has not eaten “carbs” in over ten years. I say just stick with it. If your body works best on keto, then just up calories and keeping measuring with keto sticks. If you pop out of Keto, lower proteins and higher fats and just experiment with it. You’ll find a balance if you pay enough attention.


#8

For the health benefits that you’re describing, do you actually need to be in ketosis? Or is it eliminating carbs alone bringing you the benefits?


#9

This is what I was wondering also - If it’s zero carb that reaps the benefits, Dave Palumbos setup seems to work well for most people who try it.

Of course if we’re dealing with keto for serious illness things are different


#10

I will mention that in some articles on Mag-10 there was research to show that when you consume more than 40 grams of protein at one time, ALL of the additional protein ends up in the form of glucose. Type 1 diabetics who know to take insulin for protein usually cover protein as if 50-60% of it will end up yielding glucose over 4 hours. Other studies have shown that when protein exceeds about .85 grams per pound per day ALL of the extra protein above this level will end up in the form of glucose.

I have seen non-athlete recommendations that 40 grams of carbs and less than 80 grams of protein will get a typical male into ketosis. Other recommendations that carbs plus half protein should be no greater than 20% of daily calories. This would mean that on a 2400 calorie diet, for example, about 60 grams of carbs and 120 grams of protein would be the maximum but you could drop 1 gram of carbs for every 2 grams of protein you add, so 30/180 for example. I have not known anyone who could get into ketosis with 30% of cals from protein like dchris though he says that that is a maximum and it would correspond to a 2400 calorie diet with 30 carbs and 180 protein.


#11

30% is pushing it and the protein is evenly spread through the day. In March, I kept protein high and my weight loss stalled. I was going up to 35% some days. In general, you should be around 20-25%.

My carbs are typically around 10 grams, after fiber. Protein is in the 140 range, with fat making up the rest. I’m down to 2,200 calories atm.


#12

X2

Found my sweet spot to be around 25%.


#13

It’s the insulin spikes and blood sugar rising which causes inflammation and really irritates the 3 auto-immune diseases I have


#14

The thing is, is that 20-25% of my daily intake puts me at above a gram per pound of body weight. Would that be too much for keto?


#15

Dude, seriously, no one knows. Everyone responds to food differently. Start at 20% for a week and slowly increase if you remain in Keto.


#16

Dude, seriously, that comment wasn’t even to you stop acting like i’m being a burden to somebody I just wanted some friendly advice. Thankyou


#17

Don’t be an idiot. Nothing about my post indicates you’re a burden. I don’t know how else to explain this, you’re asking very individual specific questions. We are all saying the same thing. The range is very highly individualist, but you’ve pointed twice to specific numbers. No one here can gaurentee those number.

Being direct is not equal to being unfriendly.


#18

Alright thanks for the advice


#19

Take his answer. He was a lot nicer in the delivery I would have used.


#20

The 140 protein is interesting. Studies I have seen suggest that protein synthesis is at its maximum at about .7 grams per pound. For me this would be around 140 grams a day. Keto, you may know, turns off/down gluconeogenesis, so in theory 140 would be about the level to produce maximum protein synthesis without having any left to turn into glucose. It makes sense that keto would be turned off when you are consuming protein above the level that increases the rate of protein synthesis.

I have felt that the main reason why some people see greater muscle gains at higher protein levels, like 300+ is because the extra protein basically stimulates a slow, steady release of insulin all day and into the night, IOW its the steady but increased insulin not the extra protein that causes these very high protein diets to increase muscle.