[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
MODOK wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
You should ALWAYS train an exercise through a full ROM, or the longest ROM that your flexibilty allows, and then if you want to, do some partial work in ADDITION to your full ROM work, NOT in place of it.
That is a silly, sophomoric view of bodybuilding. It does not apply to the real world of what the majority of bodybuilders do. The best advice is that there are no hard and fast rules to bodybuilding training… everything useful is dictated by the results it produces in a trainee. If you want to look extraordinary, you have to look at techniques that others deem “inappropriate”. Pushing the envelope is what bodybuilding has always been about.
I already look extraordinary, I always use full ROM, should I start using partial ROM so I can look like a fat bloated pro bodybuilder?
[/quote]
Oh God. Are you crazy? Do you seriously believe that???!! LMFAO!
[quote]Bartleby83 wrote:
I have learned the lesson that there is no right or wrong in Bodybuilding. There only clues to do it.
Ok, you can train wrong because your movements are nearly threaten your health but i mean that all is allowed what works and keep you healthy. >>>[/quote]
You were on the right track up to this point, but it appears you went south afterwards though the language issue may be playing a part.
Unlike powerlifting or olympic lifting where the lift itself will be judged, in bodybuilding the results in terms of muscle stimulus are paramount and nobody cares exactly how you did it.
Once you learn to tell when your muscles are receiving that stimulus ANYTHING that does that well without incurring injury can and should be considered as correct.
The trick is learning to tell for yourself. Then you can just smile and nod when somebody tells you you’re doing it wrong.
[quote]BF Bullpup wrote:
I always see in training articles that you should “always” perform your lifts using full range of motion. Then I go lift at my gym and watch my poundage stall while men bigger than I am don’t always use full ROM.
I’m wondering if full ROM can be overlooked in the interest of lifting more weight? I’m not saying that people can get away with doing quarter squats. I’m thinking more like seated cable rows.
If I up the weight and I’m only able to get the bar attachment 1 inch away from my chest when I was able to touch the bar to my chest using 50 pounds less, would I be a bad person? It would be better than only being able to do a half cable row??[/quote]
Utilize all the methods that can help you achieve your goals. One very underutilized secret the old-timers used that I highly suggest (and use myself that has been helping me slowly but surely jack my lifts up up and away is the use of suprimaximal holds and heavy partial ROM training for high reps to improve connective tissue and tendon strength -
this is something that old schoolers like the legendary Paul Anderson used to great effect) If you like, PM and Ill write you how I am implementing it in my training right now.
Quit getting so focused on one or the other… full and partial ROM training should be utilized in your training after you’ve gotten past “newbie training”. Be willing to try new things and experiment for yourself to find out what works for you… dont just blindly believe what someone says just because. God gave you a brain, so USE IT!
I can only say what works for me. I usually always try and do full range of motion as it just “feels” right. When i do partials, it feels like i am only working part of the muscles.
However, this is not to say i never do partial. For example, when i do squats and i have run out of steam on my last reps, i commonly will do a couple of partials just to give my quads a little focus and burn.
However, for a lift like bent over rows, i dont think partials are that beneficial for me as it just doesnt feel right or that i am really working the part of the muscle i need to… but thats just me.
For the most part i really dont use partials. I instead strip the wieght or use some other shocking method if i want to further working some muscle when i cant get full range of motion. The reason is as i said before, with partials it just doesnt feel like im working the whole muscle; but with stip sets i do. I must say ive been using stripping quite a bit lately (maybe to much) and am liking it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Bartleby83 wrote:
I have learned the lesson that there is no right or wrong in Bodybuilding. There only clues to do it.
Ok, you can train wrong because your movements are nearly threaten your health but i mean that all is allowed what works and keep you healthy. >>>
You were on the right track up to this point, but it appears you went south afterwards though the language issue may be playing a part.
Unlike powerlifting or olympic lifting where the lift itself will be judged, in bodybuilding the results in terms of muscle stimulus are paramount and nobody cares exactly how you did it.
Once you learn to tell when your muscles are receiving that stimulus ANYTHING that does that well without incurring injury can and should be considered as correct.
The trick is learning to tell for yourself. Then you can just smile and nod when somebody tells you you’re doing it wrong.[/quote]
Yes and i agree fully with you.
I am aware that when someone trains for long years “normal” training would not bring the results someone imagines or aim for. That on this point someone try something extraordinary, for the common lifters, to get a new stimulus make sense and i would not say that these people are wrong.
There are people who should try new methods and some who should learn the basics.
Yes, maybe it is a fact that also beginners benefit from “advanced” techniques but in my thoughts they should get a good basic form in the exercises they do.
There will be a time where they will be glad when they have the opportunity to change something
And yes, i think something went a little bit wrong due to my english which isn`t as good as from a native speaker
I can only say what works for me. I usually always try and do full range of motion as it just “feels” right. When i do partials, it feels like i am only working part of the muscles.
However, this is not to say i never do partial. For example, when i do squats and i have run out of steam on my last reps, i commonly will do a couple of partials just to give my quads a little focus and burn.
However, for a lift like bent over rows, i dont think partials are that beneficial for me as it just doesnt feel right or that i am really working the part of the muscle i need to… but thats just me.
For the most part i really dont use partials. I instead strip the wieght or use some other shocking method if i want to further working some muscle when i cant get full range of motion. The reason is as i said before, with partials it just doesnt feel like im working the whole muscle; but with stip sets i do. I must say ive been using stripping quite a bit lately (maybe to much) and am liking it.
[/quote]
i feel like i need of those face palm GIFs for this. dude when you do partials you ARE only working part of the muscles, thats the point. you do partial bench/db press so that you are only stimulating the chest. you do “partial” squats because you dont need to go ATG unless youre a powerlifting and you can still build muscle hitting just parallel. you can call rack pulls a partial movement, look at that, a partial with its own name…i think that speaks for itself about the effectivness of partials. i mean sure its cool to take a really heavy weight and push or pull it through the whole ROM but to be honest this IS the bodybuilding section of this site and with the goal top goal in mind being to make yourself bigger, spending your entire training career on executing full ROM for every single movement will most likely hinder your progress.
why listen to every strength coach out there who says what to do even if it contradicts what the biggest guys to the hit stage are putting to practicum?
i just wanna highlight what someone said earlier about there being a huge difference between strenous ROM and “gj you fail” ROM. dude yesterday at the gym this guy asks me to spot him on the bench and he proceeds to bench stopping the bar about 5 inches from his chest and then needing me to assist on the way up. then some other kid who im assuming was his first day gets up on the leg press and puts like 9 plates on each side. he then calls over all his boys and points to it and theyre like “no way dude youre not movin that” and hes like yea watch…he gets on, unlocks, and goes down to like right where he leg starts to bend and goes back up. he looks at me and goes “thats good right?” im like you may wanna try taking off about half of that and going for like 2 or 3 and going all the way down to where it stops. then he skips away.
It’s obviously about finding the right point where the muscle you are trying to train gets worked properly. I see vids of Frank McGrath with very smooth, full ROM, but then I also see Ronnie and Jay bust out hafl-reps.
They are all big, despite one doing it apparently ‘right’ and the others ‘wrong’. Truth is, they are all ‘right’, because they have figured out the sweet spot that allows them to feel the muscle the best and progress on the lift properly.
I also think most of the big guys don’t consciously care about things like what ROM is ideal. They just lift the weight, and if they feel part of an exercise is more beneficial for muscle stimulus than another, then they will naturally shift into training that angle of the lift more.
Maybe the part of the range of motion where you do partials is the most important.
In a study (MUSCULAR ADAPTATIONS AND INSULIN-LIKE GROWTH FACTOR-1
RESPONSES TO RESISTANCE TRAINING ARE STRETCH-MEDIATED) one of the groups did their partials only in the stretch position and did their reps paused for 2 sec in the most stretched position.
Another study (Impact of Range of Motion During Ecologically Valid Resistance Training Protocols on Muscle Size, Subcutaneous Fat, and Strength) did a similar program and one of the groups did their reps full range of motion, non paused and their results were less than those in the first study.
So either the fact that they were paused is important or that the partials stays in the stretch position or a mix of the 2
