[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
A bunch of information that if I put more than 3 seconds of thought I would have remembered
[/quote]
Thanks Sentoguy I was drawing a blank of DFT but I am familiar with dual factor training now that you pointed out what the abbreviation was. I think we both talked in a converastion about this not too long ago. Sounds interesting on paper, but I’m not convinced it’s the way to go just yet.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Man I love it when the DC guys get on these threads and say “Oh yeah, I train to complete failure on a muscle group every 4 days. Iv gained 15 lbs in the past 3 months. Stuff it.”
More than one thing works, and often, what is not supposed to work does.[/quote]
Ahem, beyond failure, and it was more than 15 lbs in the beginning :).
Off topic
I emailed you in regards to your PM.
right then, im new to this training stuff but i must say im really enjoying it. but what i wanna know is. is it poss to burn fat at the same time as building lean size? what i also want is, is a good tricep workout and something other than sit-up for my abs sa i wanna decrease the size of my waistline but also build muscle.
My diet at the moment consists of alot of lean white meat like chicken with brown rice. i drink more water than a fish. im also takin six star protein (about 100 grams of pro’ per day) and have just starting takin creatine.
P.S im 28 yo 6ft tall 16st and my bmi is about 32 (not good i know) but this is what i wanna sort out but obviously keeping at my weight training as im enjoying it so much)
Id be greatful for any pro advise.
First advise is to start your own thread haha. Better yet spend some time reading here, first stop is Christian’s new article series that is stickied to the top of the beginners section right now. Get a good grasp on some basics and come back with any specific questions you still have.
I have been doing full body workouts for over 15 years and I love them. I think guys think that you have to train the whole body as hard in one session as you would if you split up the body into parts. This is not the case.
What happens is that even though you are doing a full body program, certain parts of the body get nailed a lot harder than others. You do compound stuff for certain areas and assistance or isolation for others. Then on the next workout, you simply rotate the areas of focus. I call my plan a “Reverse Push-Pull” and will give some details
The reverse push-pull routine is not so much a routine as it is a template of a routine, which can be tailored to meet the needs of the individual. The basic objective of this template is to combine compound movements with assistance/isolation movements in a full body workout.
The templates are as follows:
Day “A” 1st part of workout: Compound Pushing Movements, Presses, Dips, and Squats
2nd part of workout: Assistance/Isolation Movements for Back, Biceps and Hamstrings
calves, abs, & stretching
Day “B” 1st part of workout: Compound Pulling Movements, Rows, Cleans, Deadlifts, Chins
(*Note: For the past few months I have started the B session with overhead squats-it seems to be a great warm-up)
2nd part of workout: Assistance/Isolation Movements for Chest, Shoulders, Triceps & Quads
calves, abs, & stretching
On the compound movements, do straight sets to near positive failure or until targeted reps are achieved. Keep written records of every set and rep and strive to increase weight and reps whenever possible. Select any exercises you like as long as they are compound movements. On the “A” day, I prefer incline presses, narrow grip bench presses, overhead presses, full squats & front squats. If I want some variety, I can substitute JM presses for the narrow grip presses or I can do the narrow grip presses from the bottom position in the power rack.
On the “B” day, I prefer bent over rows, high pulls, deadlifts, power shrugs, hyperextensions and hammer curls.
You can put these movements in any order you desire or can rotate them on a regular basis. I have found that if I do my presses first, I still have plenty of energy to do my squats, but if I squat first, then my overall energy and strength is greatly diminished and my presses suffer as a result.
On the assistance/isolation movements you select a couple of exercises and perform them in more of a “bodybuilding fashion” which can include supersets, drop sets, pre-exhaust, etc. You can also use compound movements combined with isolation movements such as performing strict lateral raises followed immediately by overhead presses to failure or leg extensions followed by non-lock front squats. An aspiring powerlifter can use the assistance/isolation time to strengthen their sticking points, perform power rack exercises, grip work and targeted tricep and lat work.
The workouts are performed in a sequential fashion, meaning you perform the “A” session, rest as needed, then perform “B”, rest as needed and repeat. I have always believed in having flexibility in your rest and recovery times. Just because 72 hours have passed, does not necessarily mean you have fully recovered from your last workout. You have to factor in the quality of your food intake, your rest, stress levels
In addition I do two-three conditioning workouts per week, which are normally done the day after a lifting session. On these days I run, jump rope, sled dragging, keg lifting, anything that missed on the previous day, ie some grip work or some Olympic technique work.
I have had great results with this plan.
Keith Wassung
[quote]scottiscool wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Man I love it when the DC guys get on these threads and say “Oh yeah, I train to complete failure on a muscle group every 4 days. Iv gained 15 lbs in the past 3 months. Stuff it.”
More than one thing works, and often, what is not supposed to work does.
Ahem, beyond failure, and it was more than 15 lbs in the beginning :).
Off topic
I emailed you in regards to your PM.[/quote]
Yeah, I was going to ask that we be pointed to some of these “stuff it” statements, but it appears you guys getting on just fine. What a wonderful world it will be when intelligent constructive conversation can occur between people of all training stripes who happen to see better results from differing methods than one another.
It will be doubly wonderful when we figure out we may actually be able to learn from people who don’t necessarily see everything the way we do. I mean both ways. There are guys around here who are at the opposite end of the spectrum from my personal philosophy who’s post’s I read every time they show up that I see. Disc Hoss, Ramo and Rainjack are three that pop into mind right off. Is it just me or does that sound like a law firm… Disc Hoss, Ramo and Rainjack attorney’s at law.
There’s guys like Scott (and others) who’s basic mindset is similar to mine, but some of his specific preferences are different. Then there’s guys like Andrew Dixon who I’ve been in “functional” debates with more times than I can remember anymore and who I’ve wanted to clang upside the head with a plate in a couple of em =]. We still manage to not be hostile to each other in the long run however.
How bout all the guys who right when I’m ready to write them off as a hopeless dumbass they post something dead on. Or the ones who are dead on (in my opinion) most of the time and then post something that has me hoping I haven’t been overestimating their powers of reason. I’m sure I fit into this somewhere for some of you guys as well.
I don’t know how I got on all this, but it seems like too many guys go into saturation bombing mode as soon as somebody sees things different than they do. Some of these threads have erupted into all out linguistic warfare when in reality all of the principle participants are right.
I hope people are paying attention when Keith posts. He’s been in the game longer than most of us and has a lot of valuable insights.
[quote]Keith Wassung wrote:
<<< The workouts are performed in a sequential fashion, meaning you perform the “A” session, rest as needed, then perform “B”, rest as needed and repeat. >>>
[/quote]
Just to clarify, I’m sure you mean “perform A on one day, take rest day/s and then B”. Not A - rest - B on the same day. It sounds like that’s what you were saying earlier on. Also how often is this done? It sounds like you just do it every other workout with rest days being as you feel.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Man I love it when the DC guys get on these threads and say “Oh yeah, I train to complete failure on a muscle group every 4 days. Iv gained 15 lbs in the past 3 months. Stuff it.”
More than one thing works, and often, what is not supposed to work does.[/quote]
Completely agree with that last statement, and that was pretty much what I was saying in my pervious post. If you’re getting results, then that’s really all that matters, regardless of what program you’re doing.
Also, I don’t recall anyone saying “stuff it” (or really anything to that nature). Yes, DC is a successful program and there are people on this forum who are currently doing it (myself included), but I’m not telling everyone else to convert to DC simply because it’s giving me results. If their program is working, then they should stick with it.
Good training,
Sentoguy
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Man I love it when the DC guys get on these threads and say “Oh yeah, I train to complete failure on a muscle group every 4 days. Iv gained 15 lbs in the past 3 months. Stuff it.”
More than one thing works, and often, what is not supposed to work does.
Completely agree with that last statement, and that was pretty much what I was saying in my pervious post. If you’re getting results, then that’s really all that matters, regardless of what program you’re doing.
Also, I don’t recall anyone saying “stuff it” (or really anything to that nature). Yes, DC is a successful program and there are people on this forum who are currently doing it (myself included), but I’m not telling everyone else to convert to DC simply because it’s giving me results. If their program is working, then they should stick with it.
Good training,
Sentoguy[/quote]
The only time I have a real problem is when somebody is dissatisfied with some aspect of their progress and people start trying to tell them that something they’ve never tried isn’t worth trying.
If somebody is getting results they’re happy with using some Cockamamie half baked plan who am I to say it isn’t working.
I’m in the mood to get side tracked on something that’s already been hammered to death so here goes.
I get my best results from pounding the livin hell outta my muscles directly once a week for each group and getting really sore. People can link me to studies and arguments about CNS issues, motor unit recruitment, physiological efficiency, soreness is bad articles or anything else. Out here in the real world I get my best results from pounding the livin hell outta my muscles directly once a week for each group and getting really sore.
I’ve fiddled around with other programs, but I always wind up going back to the Monday-legs, Wednesday-Pull/abs and Saturday-push plan.
I’m glad you said that Tiribulus because that’s what people should look at, where the results come from for them and not what is “suppsed” to work for everyone.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The only time I have a real problem is when somebody is dissatisfied with some aspect of their progress and people start trying to tell them that something they’ve never tried isn’t worth trying.
If somebody is getting results they’re happy with using some Cockamamie half baked plan who am I to say it isn’t working.
I’m in the mood to get side tracked on something that’s already been hammered to death so here goes.
I get my best results from pounding the livin hell outta my muscles directly once a week for each group and getting really sore. People can link me to studies and arguments about CNS issues, motor unit recruitment, physiological efficiency, soreness is bad articles or anything else. Out here in the real world I get my best results from pounding the livin hell outta my muscles directly once a week for each group and getting really sore.
I’ve fiddled around with other programs, but I always wind up going back to the Monday-legs, Wednesday-Pull/abs and Saturday-push plan.
[/quote]
Right on Trib. Studies and the like are interesting to read, and may in fact bring about improvements in program development (or training efficiency). But real world results will always carry more weight. Why a method works isn’t as important as whether it works.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
The only time I have a real problem is when somebody is dissatisfied with some aspect of their progress and people start trying to tell them that something they’ve never tried isn’t worth trying.
If somebody is getting results they’re happy with using some Cockamamie half baked plan who am I to say it isn’t working.
I’m in the mood to get side tracked on something that’s already been hammered to death so here goes.
I get my best results from pounding the livin hell outta my muscles directly once a week for each group and getting really sore. People can link me to studies and arguments about CNS issues, motor unit recruitment, physiological efficiency, soreness is bad articles or anything else. Out here in the real world I get my best results from pounding the livin hell outta my muscles directly once a week for each group and getting really sore.
I’ve fiddled around with other programs, but I always wind up going back to the Monday-legs, Wednesday-Pull/abs and Saturday-push plan.
Right on Trib. Studies and the like are interesting to read, and may in fact bring about improvements in program development (or training efficiency). But real world results will always carry more weight. Why a method works isn’t as important as whether it works. [/quote]
Of course you know I agree. You and I usually agree anyway. Studies can be great as inspiration for experimentation. It’s a bit befuddling though when somebody declares that something doesn’t work because studies don’t support it and there are living breathing testaments to the fact that it does.
This whole weight training/physique enterprise is unusual in that so many different methods do in fact work for different people and really well at that. At it’s most basic level if you force yourself to do what isn’t normal while eating right and getting enough rest you’ll progress. Pulling and pushing and lifting heavy pieces of metal on purpose isn’t “normal”, but the wondrous human organism adapts to it over time. Every method there is or ever will be boils down to that.
Perhaps that I should not have included that last part, but my point was that there are a great deal of things that work and and I always enjoy it when some of us who are getting results with “whats not supposed to work” are told that what we are doing doesnt work when it does.
Perhaps that I should not have included that last part, but my point was that there are a great deal of things that work and and I always enjoy it when some of us who are getting results with “whats not supposed to work” are told that what we are doing doesnt work when it does.
[quote]scottiscool wrote:
I’m glad you said that Tiribulus because that’s what people should look at, where the results come from for them and not what is “suppsed” to work for everyone. [/quote]
The thing is you can’t teach that to anybody and they can’t read it anywhere. I’m not sure how exactly it actually happens. I know one thing for sure. There are a lotta guys who are not making the progress they could because they are convinced that somebody other than themselves is more qualified to determine how they should train.
In the beginning this is probably true, but you have to graduate somewhere along the line to being able to make decisions for yourself. Certainly, reading professionals who deal with people in this context all day can and should be helpful. T-Nation is a frickin buffet for God’s sake. You take what’s good for you and leave what isn’t.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
T-Nation is a frickin buffet for God’s sake. You take what’s good for you and leave what isn’t.[/quote]
I think that’s part of the problem is people can’t. This is at least something I’ve seen with people around my age(20) and younger is the inability to think for ones self unless it is beaten into your head with a hammer(my case haha). It’s so much easier to get an education of training from a book or forum or even college courses than it is to get that education in the gym where you have to earn it.
I’ll take my 100s of workout and journal type entries over any textbook someone can find when I want to know what it takes to get from my point A of a small high school soccer player(with my genetics) to point B of a future human tank. I’ve yet to see a study done on what that takes besides the one I’m performing right now.