T Nation

Fuck You Squats and Deadlifts


So my first cycle of NOV training has taught me a lot. It’s taught my how to deadlift with correct technique which has always been a struggle for me; that I can grind out a squat (which I eventually failed after 4-5 seconds of grinding), which I haven’t ever been able to do until this week (5/3/1 week); taught me how to push out reps on both pressing moves, with a 9 rep set on 5/3/1 week for OHP.

These are milestones in my own learning and makes me confident in saying that NOV not only works but is fucking bad ass. I love it. However, on both plus weeks, I’ve only managed the requisite reps for deadlift, and got 6 reps on 3’s week and 2 on 5/3/1 (which I mentioned above). Compared to my upper body days which have seen improvements in the main movements and accessories, especially chins because i sucked at them so what is going wrong with squats and pulls? All my sets feel awesome and set me up for a huge disappointment when I’m so confident for plus sets. Ride this bullshit out or bring TMs down after only 1 cycle of NOV, yay or nay?

PS thanks Jim for a killer philosophy on training and life


PPS Locust Whip is THE band for training music


Lower TM if you want to hit more reps or change your template


I’m going to run with 5kg decrease for my next cycle with squats and deads. Work on building rep strength, I can always increase over time as per the programme but it’s a hard pill to swallow when I’ve hit my maxes in the gym and competition


Yes it is.
I’m a bit older and reps over 10 really hurt my joints.
I pick a TM that lets me hit 6-9 on the 3 week and 3-6 on the 531 week. 5 week is just 5 and I run 351 as a set up. Depending on how I feel I will hit my TM for 1 rep or 3 reps on the 3 and 1 week. It might be a bit out of line , but I pick what I think is a good TM to end a run of 4-5 cycles and work backwards for my starting TM. I always try to incorporate FSL for 3-5x5-8, except for DL. I’ll back that down with another movement that’s a little easier for 3-5x5-8 like light GM or SLDL.
I’ve been training for awhile so I just work up for 4-5 cycles then back off for a week or 2 then start working back up again. Nothing special just trying to continue to train as I age.
Good luck,don’t spin your wheels out of frustration


I searched the forums for stalling on 5/3/1 and I recommend you do the same. Too many different answers to repeat here.

The initial answer is that if you miss the prescribed reps for a couple weeks on one lift then change your TM based on your most recent rep max. This is bare minimum reps not plus reps. If you get 1 on your last set of 5/3/1 week then keep going like normal.

Another approach is to plan a set number of cycles and set a goal and work backwards. Example: Deadlift 500 in 20 weeks with current 475 Deadlift max. Set your TM at or close to 500 for the 5th cycle (which would be week 20). Set TM at 490 for 4th cycle, 480 for 3rd, 470 for 2nd, and 470 for 1st.


This is just an example based on my understanding of Jim’s comments in another thread addressing this exact topic. I could be a bit off. I haven’t tried this on myself yet. Just trying to help.


not meaning to hijack… but are you of the beleif that higher rep training is worse for joints than low rep high weight? when i say worse… i mean for somebody that may already struggle with joint issues.


Pretty much like my programme. I very much advocate less is more with training. Very rarely does the stretching and lifting take more than 60-70 minutes. I get my cardio through a very active job as well as walking everywhere, because I’m too stubborn pay for public transport


I think there is a great deal of variability, and each person needs to find what works.
I don’t think either is better or worse on joint wear and tear unless there is an injury, to the joint. joint wear is based on cumulative load over time. Hence obesity is a risk factor for djd.
I have found as an older (57) trainer that limiting my max reps works better, I don’t have as much form breakdowns and a little more weight works better for me. Everyone has some differences., for example de loads work poorly for me as does maxing out


I’d otherwise do this, but I need to work on reps upon reps through my off season. I only have a few months before I’m due to compete again so need to make the most of it and not burn myself out


FSL is great for that , as are pyramids down


Good luck


I consider having to take a taxi an admission that I’m lost and can’t get myself home. My dad calls such expenses the “dummy tax.”


I don’t think high or low reps are the issue with my own joint pain as much as unnecessary “locking out” of the joints. Each time a person fully extends, two bones nick each other. You will know it when you feel it.


yeah i would agree with locking out. i dont on most exercises as a precaution. i have two messed up wrists (long term issue) so im trying to figure out whats good and whats not for me to be doing.