T Nation

FSL with Deads (Bands / Chains)

When you do FSL with deadlifts would this ever be a time to experiments with bands or chains or deficits to help build your explosiveness? Or should I just stick with the basic movement?

Jim, I know you are not a fan of bands and chains for the raw bench and squat. I wasn’t sure if you thought they had a place in deadlift training.

I have my first competition in about 6 weeks and am looking forward to finally getting out on the platform. Thanks for the knowledge.

Stick w/ straight weight, particularly this being your first meet. Explosiveness seems to be a direct reflection of top end strength. I don’t know anyone who is strong and slow. The stronger you get the faster you get. For example, who is gonna move 225lb faster? The guy who’s max is 300lbs or the guy who’s max is 400lbs?

I know I’m not Jim, but I hope this helps you. If you’re doing 531, I would just stick w/ straight weight. Good luck at your first meet.

Personally, I would not add a major new component like that just a few weeks before your meet. If you’re weaker towards the bottom, which is probably the case, I wouldn’t bother. They kind of just make training and measuring progress more complicated, and as a raw lifter even if you do have a weakness towards the top of a lift, you can still train it with basic work (for example if you ARE weaker towards the top of DL, you might wanna hit rows/shrugs/pullups harder or basic tricep exercises if your bench is weak at lockout). Beyond 531 includes a couple ways to add speed work to the regular program, so if you really want you can look into that after the meet.

Have you read “Beyond?” I believe he says for dynamic training 5 x 2 with 70% and specifically mentions doing them after the main lift is an option. My own experience leads me to totally disagree with Nick here. I have great success doing them after the main work - essentially FSL because it is with 70% - and to complicate this even more - I throw in bands every once in a while - but usually I use the deficits.

Nick - deficit dead lifts after the main lift complicates nothing. This is powerlifting no? 6 weeks is also plenty of time, especially for the dead lift. I agree if it the week before - but as assistance after the main lift - no problem.
FYI - the problem I see with most is they use too much of a deficit. A 45 pound plate is usually enough so you don’t alter leverages. One of those aerobic steps is almost too much though I have used them.

I appreciate the help. I did deficits last week and did them on one of those aerobic steps. The position felt very weird. I will try on plate next time.

I am really looking for a advice for after this first competition. My deadlift seems to lag a bit. I am going for 450 as my goal. 42 year old male, one year of training, bodyweight of 245. I thought I would be over 500 by now. I started at 225 so I guess I can’t complain about adding 200 pounds to my deadlift in 12 months.

Of the 6 weeks left, two are are deloads. I will do Wendler’s 3/5/1 meet prep that he lays out in 5/3/1 for powerlifting. Jim recomends cutting weigh back on assistance work during this period. Not sure if I should keep doing FSL or just hit the heavy singles and some back and abs and call it a day.

[quote]BDJBoston wrote:
I appreciate the help. I did deficits last week and did them on one of those aerobic steps. The position felt very weird. I will try on plate next time.

I am really looking for a advice for after this first competition. My deadlift seems to lag a bit. I am going for 450 as my goal. 42 year old male, one year of training, bodyweight of 245. I thought I would be over 500 by now. I started at 225 so I guess I can’t complain about adding 200 pounds to my deadlift in 12 months.

Of the 6 weeks left, two are are deloads. I will do Wendler’s 3/5/1 meet prep that he lays out in 5/3/1 for powerlifting. Jim recomends cutting weigh back on assistance work during this period. Not sure if I should keep doing FSL or just hit the heavy singles and some back and abs and call it a day. [/quote]

The key is to go into the meet as healthy and strong as possible. Cutting back on assistance work and focusing on main lifts is a very smart idea. Allows the body to recover even more going into the meet and focusing on main lifts helps get your head right and technique better.

[quote]Rave2.0 wrote:
Have you read “Beyond?” I believe he says for dynamic training 5 x 2 with 70% and specifically mentions doing them after the main lift is an option. My own experience leads me to totally disagree with Nick here. I have great success doing them after the main work - essentially FSL because it is with 70% - and to complicate this even more - I throw in bands every once in a while - but usually I use the deficits.

Nick - deficit dead lifts after the main lift complicates nothing. This is powerlifting no? 6 weeks is also plenty of time, especially for the dead lift. I agree if it the week before - but as assistance after the main lift - no problem.
FYI - the problem I see with most is they use too much of a deficit. A 45 pound plate is usually enough so you don’t alter leverages. One of those aerobic steps is almost too much though I have used them.[/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t even see that he mentioned deficit pulls. I have no problem with that, they’re merely an option for an assistance movement, and a good one for people weak off the floor.
I was only referring to accomadating resistance. I never got the fascination with bands/chains, I’m not sure why people weak at the bottom of lifts want to use them so much. I am under the assumptions that he has never used them before, is competing raw, and is weak at the bottom. Therefore, I still would not personally suggest throwing them on the main lift for the first time during meet prep. If he deloads the final week, you’ve got 4-5 weeks training with it (and possibly changing the groove of the lift)and it’s not going to do much of anything special. You’re not going to improve things much in the last couple weeks but you can mess things up a lot. I would say to add in basic speed work if you want as per the book, utilize deficits, more volume on the competitive exercise (my personal recomendation), or just keep doing what you’ve been doing and experiment after the meet.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]BDJBoston wrote:
I appreciate the help. I did deficits last week and did them on one of those aerobic steps. The position felt very weird. I will try on plate next time.

I am really looking for a advice for after this first competition. My deadlift seems to lag a bit. I am going for 450 as my goal. 42 year old male, one year of training, bodyweight of 245. I thought I would be over 500 by now. I started at 225 so I guess I can’t complain about adding 200 pounds to my deadlift in 12 months.

Of the 6 weeks left, two are are deloads. I will do Wendler’s 3/5/1 meet prep that he lays out in 5/3/1 for powerlifting. Jim recomends cutting weigh back on assistance work during this period. Not sure if I should keep doing FSL or just hit the heavy singles and some back and abs and call it a day. [/quote]

The key is to go into the meet as healthy and strong as possible. Cutting back on assistance work and focusing on main lifts is a very smart idea. Allows the body to recover even more going into the meet and focusing on main lifts helps get your head right and technique better. [/quote]

Agreed