[quote]jmm2020 wrote:
heres the solution I came up with and they are available…just look for Zercher…J
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Can everyone please stop going at the same time, please? 
[quote]Hekk wrote:
Kroll, how could somoene Jerk the weight if its only on the very tip of the fingers?
The thing is that front squat with a clean grip is used to get stronger on a part of the Clean and Jerk movement. If you can’t hold that kind of weight on your shoulder/wrist (since its not all on your wrist) you can’t jerk it.
Anyway, this all depends if you are training for O-lifting or if it’s for quads strenght (or for strongman sports).[/quote]
When performing Clean & Jerk, OLers adjust their hands position before they Jerk the weight. If I’m not mistaken, jerk is also initiated with legs/hips, and hands (and whole body) is then placed under the bar - so the lifter is then holding the bar with “whole” hands and not by wrists alone.
Also, be sure to check the forums for the video of Pyrros Dimas, where he, among other things, Cleans some 170kg or so and then outstretches his arms in front completely while walking with that weight.
Along with doing power cleans, push press, squats, and bench, sometimes my wrists are pretty sore. My solution is to use two vice grips as handles. It is much easier to gut out the last couple of reps on the front squats when I don’t have to be distracted by the pain in my wrists. Of course, if you do this, put some tape or rubber hose on the grip end so you don’t mess up the knureling on the bar and tick off the gym owner.
The barbell front squat is a phenomenal, yet seldom performed version of the regular barbell squat. This exercise directs a great deal of focus onto the front part of the thigh, especially the vastus medalis, which is the part of the lower thigh above the knee that looks like a teardrop, the rectus femoris, or center thigh, and the hamstrings. There is also an effect on the hips, lower back and to some extent, the abdominal wall. The front squat is not a replacement for the back squat, but if done effectively, can be a tremendous boost to overall lower body strength, development and flexibility.
Front squats are tricky to get used to-but its important that you develop the technical skills needed to become comfortable with this movement. In the majority of cases, people feel awkward when first attempting this exercise, which often results in them failing to include it in their routine. This movement takes a certain amount of practice and there is a certain level of initial pain and discomfort which the body will adapt to over a period of time-just like when you first begin deadlifting-it takes time for the calluses to develop, but once they are there, you never think about it again-the same is true when you first begin performing the front squat.
The benefits of including the front squat in a training routine can be tremendous if performed correctly. However, many people have difficulty with its performance because of the stress that it can put on the wrists-Fortunately there are several ways to facilitate and work around this. Begin by approaching the barbell in the squat racks and get underneath the bar and place it across your clavicles, as close to the base of the neck as possible. You can use some padding across the upper chest or what seems to give some added cushioning and traction is to simply wear an extra heavy sweat shirt when doing front squats.
Raise your arms up until the bar is resting on the groove between the front and middle deltoid. You now have several options for hand placement and support. You can take a slightly wider than shoulder grip on the bar with the exact same position as if you were cleaning the weight from the floor. This is the best and most stable position, but it is difficult for those with very large arms, those with short arms, those who lack sufficient wrist flexibility, or those with a history of wrist and hand trauma. You will find that increased practice will increase the flexibility of your wrists and hands.
You may also want to practice actually cleaning the weight from the floor and then performing the front squat-doing this seems to set the bar into a natural position for most people. If you still lack wrist flexibility you can still support and balance the bar by keeping an open hand and just using the fingertips to steady the bar across the shoulders. Remember that you only need to support the bar with the tips of your fingers. I use the three middle fingers of my hands to steady the bar and the top part of the phalanges only come in contact with the bar.
Another trick is to take a pair of wrist straps and loop them tightly around the bar where your hands would normally be placed. Tie a knot in the end of the straps and then grab the base of each strap with the fists facing each other. This will put you into the same position as if you were using the normal front squat position. Keep your elbows high and parallel to the floor and you are ready to squat. The last method is to cross the arms across the chest, which is a popular method that bodybuilders use when doing front squats-this works especially well for those with thick development in the upper chest and shoulder region, but it is not as stable as the previous methods.
You will want to begin this exercise with relatively light poundage-You will not be able to handle as much weight in the front squat as you can with a regular squat. It will take some time and practice to get used to the balance and the feel of the exercise bar. Take a stance that is about shoulder width with the toes pointed either straight ahead or slightly out. Looking straight ahead, take a breath and tighten your back muscles. When going down, you need to keep your knees lined up over the tops of your feet. Descend slowly all the way to the bottom position and without bouncing, start to release your breath and drive the bar back up. Keep your back muscles contracted and your elbows up during the entire movement. The real key is to hit rock bottom depth without any kind of bouncing or other ballistic activity. I realize that many fitness experts caution against full squat movements, but I feel that as long as the technique is correct, and there is no bouncing at the bottom, squatting rock bottom is the way to go. Begin by working in the 6-10 rep range for 1-2 sets per workout and then incorporate the front squat into your routine based on your training goals. Front squats will produce quad roundness and sweeps like no other exercise. The reason they are seldom performed is because they are so darn tough and demanding-but the results will be worth it!
Keith Wassung
I should point out that I have run into keith on another site where he list his max front squat. I don’t remember what it was but I do remember that everyone was impressed. He should be listened to on this, he has the experience
Slotan, you’re right on the adjusting part before you jerk the weight…
But…front squatting it with the weight in the clean position (the weight rest on your shoulder and hands/fingers) will make your wrist used to that movement.
I think that and a little bit more flexibility was what i needed when i started O-lifting.
[quote]Hekk wrote:
…
But…front squatting it with the weight in the clean position (the weight rest on your shoulder and hands/fingers) will make your wrist used to that movement.
…
[/quote]
I agree; and not only wrists but your whole upper body gets used to the load.
I remember reading on another forum some 2 years ago a post from an expirienced strongman how Front Squats help Military and Push Presses. At that time I didn’t understand why, but, now I see it’s because Front Squatting teaches you to tighten your whole upper body under a heavy load, so when you press or jerk it, you have a much better base to press against; at least in my opinion.
Still, the wrists hold a small portion of the total weight 
[quote]Keith Wassung wrote:
The reason they are seldom performed is because they are so darn tough and demanding-but the results will be worth it!
Keith Wassung
[/quote]
Thanks for taking the time to write all that, Keith. I’m sure we’ve all apreciated it. I’ve bookmarked this page for future reference. Been meaning to start front squatting for a while with a clean grip (to start OLing eventually) and I’ll be following your pointers for sure.
[quote]Hekk wrote:
Kroll, how could somoene Jerk the weight if its only on the very tip of the fingers?
The thing is that front squat with a clean grip is used to get stronger on a part of the Clean and Jerk movement. If you can’t hold that kind of weight on your shoulder/wrist (since its not all on your wrist) you can’t jerk it.
Anyway, this all depends if you are training for O-lifting or if it’s for quads strenght (or for strongman sports).[/quote]
I didn’t mean to say that the weight is on the VERY tip of the fingers, mine is usually between the first and second joints of the fingers (from the finger tip end). You don’t actually need to have a grip on the bar to prepare for the jerk. Since the jerk begins with leg drive, after the drive up and split, my hands grab the bar as I am splitting under the bar to prepare to catch it with straight arms. It took me a while to get the feel for this movement.
Also, after coming up from the clean and the bar pops off my shoulders for a moment, i switch my grip a bit wider. However, I don’t hold the bar in a grip in this position either.
[quote]jmm2020 wrote:
I have seen this subject discussed many times and for anyone short of a competitive OLY lifter this whole discussion of pain and suffering while maintianing form in a given movement like the front squat is rediculous…
I have been at this a very long time and suffered many injuries along the way…some I don’t mind as they were in the heat of competitive battle or in preparation for it…but useless injuries like wrist strains, shoulder strains and elbow strains are simply uselsss…and contrary to what you hear…they are the reasons people do not repetatively include these things in their routines…
I have come to be very comeptitve in many aspects of powerlifting, bench still sux…lol…and have found exercises like Front Squats and Zerchers to be staple movements for me…the reason they are and are not for so many people is the difficulty in getting them done…well…I found a solution…
I can now routinely exceed 500-550lbs on my zerchers and 400-455 for reps on my front squats…I can assure you…the pain is for wannabe tough guys at that point because its not pain…its agonizing and totally not productive…heres the solution I came up with and they are available…just look for Zercher…J
Interesting design, pretty creative. I don’t know anything about welding, but I don’t think it would hurt if the hooks that hold the bar were more reinforced.
I put alot of thought into how this went together and the pins are super secure…what I do is cut the pins overly long…they don’t simply go through the front wall of the tube but all the way to the back…I line them up and weld them with the pin up against the back wall…the inside…this makes it so that for the pin to go anywhere it would have to fail at the weld completely to move as it is cantelevered in there…it simply can’t move…no place to go…
This again contrasts the Kiwi one which is a steel strap design…the pin is welded onto a steel srap…one dimension of retention…that always scared the crap out of me…this thing can’t budge…
[quote]pparris wrote:
Along with doing power cleans, push press, squats, and bench, sometimes my wrists are pretty sore. My solution is to use two vice grips as handles. It is much easier to gut out the last couple of reps on the front squats when I don’t have to be distracted by the pain in my wrists. Of course, if you do this, put some tape or rubber hose on the grip end so you don’t mess up the knureling on the bar and tick off the gym owner.
[/quote]
OMG, this sounds extremely dangerous!
[quote]ipjunkie wrote:
pparris wrote:
Along with doing power cleans, push press, squats, and bench, sometimes my wrists are pretty sore. My solution is to use two vice grips as handles. It is much easier to gut out the last couple of reps on the front squats when I don’t have to be distracted by the pain in my wrists. Of course, if you do this, put some tape or rubber hose on the grip end so you don’t mess up the knureling on the bar and tick off the gym owner.
OMG, this sounds extremely dangerous![/quote]
Nah, it’s no more dangerous than holding in in the hands. You just let go of the vice grips if you need to dump it.
-Dan