Front Squats Before or After DL?

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Kevin5255 wrote:
I’ve used front squats as a ME movement first then speed deadlifts after.[/quote]

I don’t think speed work is all that beneficial after an ME movement. Speed stuff is all about maximum nervous system activation and you can’t do that after ME stuff.[/quote]

While I agree with this for the most part, I know Josh Bryant has his clients do it right after ME work and he’s got some pretty fricken strong guys as clients. When I worked with him I don’t feel as though I had a lot of carryover doing it but I would say it can and does work for certain people.[/quote]

My speed always sucks balls after a heavy session. kinda felt like it defeated the purpose.

Generally front squats would go before deads but of course you can try both and see how it goes. Front squats are most similar to regular squats which obviously go before deads. In general deads tire out the back more than the legs, and doing most anything with a fatigued back tends to lead to poor form. Front squats are also higher skill than deads which means they are usually performed first. Deads, while a competition lift, are performed at the end of the meet after you are pretty tired, so it makes sense to train them in a somewhat fatigued state, in addition the body gets used to doing both squats and deads in the same workout after a few sessions of doing it.

But again try both. Usually the fatigue effect of doing front squats first has less of a negative effect on deads than doing it the other way around, but if you find that is not true for you then feel free to switch it up.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Kevin5255 wrote:
I’ve used front squats as a ME movement first then speed deadlifts after.[/quote]

I don’t think speed work is all that beneficial after an ME movement. Speed stuff is all about maximum nervous system activation and you can’t do that after ME stuff.[/quote]

While I agree with this for the most part, I know Josh Bryant has his clients do it right after ME work and he’s got some pretty fricken strong guys as clients. When I worked with him I don’t feel as though I had a lot of carryover doing it but I would say it can and does work for certain people.[/quote]

I’m not sure how this speed theory developed but I’ve seen some “technical” differences between the Westside DE days and CAT stuff I’ve seen which may have come from Hatfield.

Usually the DE stuff is ~10 sets of double or triples, but I’ve seen some guys doing 5x5 stuff and calling it CAT sets. I think Josh’s stuff was based on the CAT which was usually done after some heavy sets and the DE stuff is usually done on a seperate day.

I have seen some studies showing that potential for “speed” work drops after ME work. If this has any effect on overall strength development, I’m not so sure.

[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
Generally front squats would go before deads but of course you can try both and see how it goes. Front squats are most similar to regular squats which obviously go before deads. In general deads tire out the back more than the legs, and doing most anything with a fatigued back tends to lead to poor form. Front squats are also higher skill than deads which means they are usually performed first. Deads, while a competition lift, are performed at the end of the meet after you are pretty tired, so it makes sense to train them in a somewhat fatigued state, in addition the body gets used to doing both squats and deads in the same workout after a few sessions of doing it.

But again try both. Usually the fatigue effect of doing front squats first has less of a negative effect on deads than doing it the other way around, but if you find that is not true for you then feel free to switch it up.[/quote]

Thanks for all the contribution in this thread ppl:).

And tim thats a really good answer, it really makes sense that it is not optimal to perform squats with a fatigued back etc :slight_smile: thanks man