Front Squat Carryover

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
61

Matt K uses a Westside approach???
Bullshit, I’ve never seen any Westisders do drop sets of squats from 500 lbs.

Chad Aichs uses a Westside approach???
You obviously haven’t seen his training cycles on EliteFts… He has a week for ME and a week for DE work… That is nowhere close to what Westside does.

Westside doesn’t advocate taking weeks off??? You haven’t been there so you wouldn’t know. Some Westsiders take 2 weeks off before and about 2 weeks off after a meet.

Westside doesn’t use kettlebells??? You obviously haven’t read Louie’s article on kettlebells nor have you seen the 'bells at Westside.

Oh yeah, Chuck has dropped out of the lifting scene…
Dear God, I only hope he didn’t hear you say that, because when I was at Westside 5 weeks ago, a comment like that could get you smashed through a wall.

As far as the disappearance of many Westside lifters, I think that many of them go to prison. While it is an unfortunate occurence, it takes a very HARDCORE person to train at Westside. It is too bad many of these people think drugs/crime is necessary for a hardcore powerlifting lifestyle…

Ok… Westsiders who have been there for long… Matt Smith, Chuck, Fred Boldt, Amy Weisenburger, Bob Coe, John Gritter, John Stafford, etc, etc.

I hope you guys get out of your current training ruts and make some PR’s- maybe it’ll make you feel better about yourselves so you can stop bullshiting about stuff you don’t even know about.

62

[quote]dead_lifter5000 wrote:
Matt K uses a Westside approach???
Bullshit, I’ve never seen any Westisders do drop sets of squats from 500 lbs.

Chad Aichs uses a Westside approach???
You obviously haven’t seen his training cycles on EliteFts… He has a week for ME and a week for DE work… That is nowhere close to what Westside does.

Westside doesn’t advocate taking weeks off??? You haven’t been there so you wouldn’t know. Some Westsiders take 2 weeks off before and about 2 weeks off after a meet.

Westside doesn’t use kettlebells??? You obviously haven’t read Louie’s article on kettlebells nor have you seen the 'bells at Westside.

Oh yeah, Chuck has dropped out of the lifting scene…
Dear God, I only hope he didn’t hear you say that, because when I was at Westside 5 weeks ago, a comment like that could get you smashed through a wall.

As far as the disappearance of many Westside lifters, I think that many of them go to prison. While it is an unfortunate occurence, it takes a very HARDCORE person to train at Westside. It is too bad many of these people think drugs/crime is necessary for a hardcore powerlifting lifestyle…

Ok… Westsiders who have been there for long… Matt Smith, Chuck, Fred Boldt, Amy Weisenburger, Bob Coe, John Gritter, John Stafford, etc, etc.

I hope you guys get out of your current training ruts and make some PR’s- maybe it’ll make you feel better about yourselves so you can stop bullshiting about stuff you don’t even know about.[/quote]

Ok I’m gonna go on record here as saying DL5000 is the only person I respect that has re-butted the things I said. I’d be interested to here what actually goes on over there from someone who actually knows. Listen to what he says guys… It’s straight from the horses mouth.

How insane was the gym man?

63

Instead of creating a new thread, I’ll bump this one and ask here. What constitutes a good front squat, weight wise? I was thinking anything over 300, but that’s pretty subjective.

64

[quote]TKL.ca wrote:
Instead of creating a new thread, I’ll bump this one and ask here. What constitutes a good front squat, weight wise? I was thinking anything over 300, but that’s pretty subjective. [/quote]

Heheh. 300 sounds good to me, since that is about where I am…I think bodyweight is going to be a big factor though, but it’s a good question.

However, I’d be more interested to see what percentage correlation their is from back squat to front squat. i.e. If you can back squat 500lbs you should shoot for 70% of that, or 350, on front squat (just an example).

65

[quote]Modi wrote:
TKL.ca wrote:
Instead of creating a new thread, I’ll bump this one and ask here. What constitutes a good front squat, weight wise? I was thinking anything over 300, but that’s pretty subjective.

Heheh. 300 sounds good to me, since that is about where I am…I think bodyweight is going to be a big factor though, but it’s a good question.

However, I’d be more interested to see what percentage correlation their is from back squat to front squat. i.e. If you can back squat 500lbs you should shoot for 70% of that, or 350, on front squat (just an example).[/quote]

Yes is subjective to BW and build even as it relates to a back squat. For instance last time I did a Max back squat I was nearing 500. just this week however just my second time doing front squats as a ME move got 405 x 3.

Is it bringing up my back squat?? Im sure it is as my max effort box safety squat bar squats etc are climbing as well. but I think its helping my DL and strongman keg work etc much more

just depends on what your strengths are leverages etc. as well as goals

Phill

66

[quote]Phill wrote:
just this week however just my second time doing front squats as a ME move got 405 x 3.

Phill
[/quote]

Beast.

67

[quote]Phill wrote:
Modi wrote:
TKL.ca wrote:
Instead of creating a new thread, I’ll bump this one and ask here. What constitutes a good front squat, weight wise? I was thinking anything over 300, but that’s pretty subjective.

Heheh. 300 sounds good to me, since that is about where I am…I think bodyweight is going to be a big factor though, but it’s a good question.

However, I’d be more interested to see what percentage correlation their is from back squat to front squat. i.e. If you can back squat 500lbs you should shoot for 70% of that, or 350, on front squat (just an example).

Yes is subjective to BW and build even as it relates to a back squat. For instance last time I did a Max back squat I was nearing 500. just this week however just my second time doing front squats as a ME move got 405 x 3.

Is it bringing up my back squat?? Im sure it is as my max effort box safety squat bar squats etc are climbing as well. but I think its helping my DL and strongman keg work etc much more

just depends on what your strengths are leverages etc. as well as goals

Phill

[/quote]

That is some great lifting Phill! I am trying to work front squats into my program but am having some form issues namely:

  1. trying to increase the flexibility in my wrists so that holding 60kgs in my finger tips (middle three fingers)doesnt make my wrists feel like they are going to rip off

2)increasing my flexibiliy. This is general as I can’t tie down exactly what is causing me it but I have a real issue keeping my torso straight and as I descend to rock bottom with a slightly wider than shoulderwidth stance my torso just starts leaning forward and almost dumping the bar.

I dont think its a weak core issue using 60kgs because I tried these again on Tuesday after back squatting 160kg* 5reps for 3 sets with a wider than shoulderwidth stance done without a belt and dipping below parallel.

So only using 60kgs for the front squat leads me to believe its not a core issue but more of a flexibility issue.

I know without seeing a video of me front squatting its hard, but you guys got any idea what stretching I need to do to help my mobility for this exercise and prevent the excessive lean?

Many thanks,
D

68

[quote]dheeel wrote:

I know without seeing a video of me front squatting its hard, but you guys got any idea what stretching I need to do to help my mobility for this exercise and prevent the excessive lean?

Many thanks,
D [/quote]

You have to stretch basicaly your hip flexors, hamstrings, calves and wrists.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640906

69

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
dheeel wrote:

I know without seeing a video of me front squatting its hard, but you guys got any idea what stretching I need to do to help my mobility for this exercise and prevent the excessive lean?

Many thanks,
D

You have to stretch basicaly your hip flexors, hamstrings, calves and wrists.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640906

[/quote]

Thanks for this Dude. I will have to do this everyday for a while to help with some of my issues I think.

70

[quote]dheeel wrote:

That is some great lifting Phill! I am trying to work front squats into my program but am having some form issues namely:

  1. trying to increase the flexibility in my wrists so that holding 60kgs in my finger tips (middle three fingers)doesnt make my wrists feel like they are going to rip off

2)increasing my flexibiliy. This is general as I can’t tie down exactly what is causing me it but I have a real issue keeping my torso straight and as I descend to rock bottom with a slightly wider than shoulderwidth stance my torso just starts leaning forward and almost dumping the bar.

I dont think its a weak core issue using 60kgs because I tried these again on Tuesday after back squatting 160kg* 5reps for 3 sets with a wider than shoulderwidth stance done without a belt and dipping below parallel.

So only using 60kgs for the front squat leads me to believe its not a core issue but more of a flexibility issue.

I know without seeing a video of me front squatting its hard, but you guys got any idea what stretching I need to do to help my mobility for this exercise and prevent the excessive lean?

Many thanks,
D [/quote]

Thanks guys and Im not to proud to say Im proud im friggin stoked to nail that

Hmm your prob great link etc by the other poster Id also look at where yor carrying the bar. are you getting it as far back on your shoulders actually pressing into your neck as you can?? that makes a huge difference changes the center of gravity.

I will say Im doing mine rignt now I guess they call it BB style on moist days due to a nagging forearm issue im having o let heal feels like the damn bone is slightly fractured but so far im assured its tendon/nerve type stuff. But im not goinmg to let it limit my front squatting LBs.

You might think the same go as far as you can with the clean grip and if need be then switch and hit higher lbs get the body used to it and constantly work on bringing the clean grip up. Kind Of like PPL DLig with straps when there grip is the limiter sure do it but always work on bringing the grip up

Thanks again guys
Phill

71

This is a really good page from Dan John’s site: danjohn.org

72

Well first of all.
What can I say Hanley.
The westside method does not make you more injury prone than other methods.
In fact, 99 percent of the people using the so-called Westside method aren’t.
Simply for the the fact that they do not train at Westside barbell.
With that said, how can you say that the conjugate method is not the most efficient way of gaining strength?
This applies especially for the advanced lifter. Anybody who includes hypertrophy training, speed training, max effort training, etc in every period is using the conjugate method!
The conjugate method is the superior method, according the Louie simmons anyways.
And I think it’s safe to say that he is also the superior in knowledge of powerlifting that you Hanley.

73

Yes, let’s continue a discussion from 2 years ago.

Also, Hanley is pretty bamf so don’t call him out. You’re not Louie.

74

All you guys talking shit about wide stance squatting, look at Wade Hooper, Mike Mastrean and Mike Tuscherer. All IPF, all super wide stance.

75

[quote]Joseb wrote:
Well first of all.
What can I say Hanley.
The westside method does not make you more injury prone than other methods.
In fact, 99 percent of the people using the so-called Westside method aren’t.
Simply for the the fact that they do not train at Westside barbell.
With that said, how can you say that the conjugate method is not the most efficient way of gaining strength?
This applies especially for the advanced lifter. Anybody who includes hypertrophy training, speed training, max effort training, etc in every period is using the conjugate method!
The conjugate method is the superior method, according the Louie simmons anyways.
And I think it’s safe to say that he is also the superior in knowledge of powerlifting that you Hanley.[/quote]

The fact you bumped a 2 year old thread to have a go at me is the ultimate fail. But it’s nice that you did so and in doing so agreed with me.

EDIT: And lets look what happened since this thread started…
-Modi’s squatting bigger than pretty much everyone on the board, and will probably say his best results came from not doing Westside
-Chuck V wrecked himself and then came back to squat a fucking insane amount (glad I was wrong there!!)
-The WPO’s gone
-Louie’s been involved with a lot of controversy which appears to have ultimately lead to the breakup of one of his big name training groups
-Westside is still complicated for beginners
-And there’s been a shift away from it, at least online, towards simple prescribed methods like Sheiko and 5/3/1
-I’m totally open to correction on this, it seems liek there’s been a bit of a movement in westside training itself, getting away from DE in favour of RE?
-Finally, I broke out of my “rut” and hit some PR’s. Lucky me!

What a difference 2 years makes.

76

Wow, whoever started this thread was a total newb at the time.

I would say that I had poor results with a strict Westside approach. I had better results when I either kept Back Squat as my ME movement and went for a 5rm on week 1, 3rm on week 2, and 1rm on week 3, then repeated. Or when I Back Squatted for two weeks going for a 3rm on week 1 and a 1rm on week 2, then switched to Box Squats for two weeks and repeated.

I had the best technique improvements while doing the 13 week Sheiko cycle, and moderate strength gains as well.

Without a doubt, my best strength gains have come from doing Smolov. Hands down.

All I can say is that I feel like I have absorbed a ton of knowledge in the past couple of years, and have tried to apply as much as possible. I don’t think you’ll ever know what really works until you try it yourself. And I can also say that I am still as blissfully ignorant about the politics of PL’ing as I was a few years ago, and plan to stay that way as long as possible.

77

Okay, so I realize this a really old thread, but I’m glad someone bumped it up (even if the reasons weren’t maybe the greatest). I’ve been thinking about incorporating some front squats into my training cycle, primarily because I suck at them. I train using conjugate principles, compete in the USAPL. So far I’ve had good luck but I’ve been tending to get away from the “train your weakness” aspect of the Westside principles. I suck at front squat (I tend to pitch forward) so I think bringing them up may help my back squat.

Modi, can you point me towards a primer on Smolov? I’ve heard about it here and there, but haven’t ever really read anything on it.

78

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Joseb wrote:
Well first of all.
What can I say Hanley.
The westside method does not make you more injury prone than other methods.
In fact, 99 percent of the people using the so-called Westside method aren’t.
Simply for the the fact that they do not train at Westside barbell.
With that said, how can you say that the conjugate method is not the most efficient way of gaining strength?
This applies especially for the advanced lifter. Anybody who includes hypertrophy training, speed training, max effort training, etc in every period is using the conjugate method!
The conjugate method is the superior method, according the Louie simmons anyways.
And I think it’s safe to say that he is also the superior in knowledge of powerlifting that you Hanley.

The fact you bumped a 2 year old thread to have a go at me is the ultimate fail. But it’s nice that you did so and in doing so agreed with me.

EDIT: And lets look what happened since this thread started…
-Modi’s squatting bigger than pretty much everyone on the board, and will probably say his best results came from not doing Westside
-Chuck V wrecked himself and then came back to squat a fucking insane amount (glad I was wrong there!!)
-The WPO’s gone
-Louie’s been involved with a lot of controversy which appears to have ultimately lead to the breakup of one of his big name training groups
-Westside is still complicated for beginners
-And there’s been a shift away from it, at least online, towards simple prescribed methods like Sheiko and 5/3/1
-I’m totally open to correction on this, it seems liek there’s been a bit of a movement in westside training itself, getting away from DE in favour of RE?
-Finally, I broke out of my “rut” and hit some PR’s. Lucky me!

What a difference 2 years makes.[/quote]

does chuck even still train at westside?

79

[quote]burt128 wrote:
Okay, so I realize this a really old thread, but I’m glad someone bumped it up (even if the reasons weren’t maybe the greatest). I’ve been thinking about incorporating some front squats into my training cycle, primarily because I suck at them. I train using conjugate principles, compete in the USAPL. So far I’ve had good luck but I’ve been tending to get away from the “train your weakness” aspect of the Westside principles. I suck at front squat (I tend to pitch forward) so I think bringing them up may help my back squat.

Modi, can you point me towards a primer on Smolov? I’ve heard about it here and there, but haven’t ever really read anything on it.[/quote]

Shortly after I started this thread I started using Front Squats as a secondary movement instead of my ME movement, and had good success with it. It definitely helps improve core strength. I also did these with a pin set at the bottom position, and would deload the weight onto the pins for a second before coming back up. I did a lot of 3x3’s like this, and felt like it helped me out of the hole, and to get into an upright position.

Smolov Stuff:
http://www.ontariostrongman.ca/Resources/training/smolovsquatcycle.htm
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-add-100-pounds-to-your-squat-smolov/

All are must reads. The Ontario Strongman link lays out the program for you. The Stronglifts has a good calculator and good tips, an the Dragondoor is someone’s account of doing Smolov.

80

[quote]Kerley wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Joseb wrote:
Well first of all.
What can I say Hanley.
The westside method does not make you more injury prone than other methods.
In fact, 99 percent of the people using the so-called Westside method aren’t.
Simply for the the fact that they do not train at Westside barbell.
With that said, how can you say that the conjugate method is not the most efficient way of gaining strength?
This applies especially for the advanced lifter. Anybody who includes hypertrophy training, speed training, max effort training, etc in every period is using the conjugate method!
The conjugate method is the superior method, according the Louie simmons anyways.
And I think it’s safe to say that he is also the superior in knowledge of powerlifting that you Hanley.

The fact you bumped a 2 year old thread to have a go at me is the ultimate fail. But it’s nice that you did so and in doing so agreed with me.

EDIT: And lets look what happened since this thread started…
-Modi’s squatting bigger than pretty much everyone on the board, and will probably say his best results came from not doing Westside
-Chuck V wrecked himself and then came back to squat a fucking insane amount (glad I was wrong there!!)
-The WPO’s gone
-Louie’s been involved with a lot of controversy which appears to have ultimately lead to the breakup of one of his big name training groups
-Westside is still complicated for beginners
-And there’s been a shift away from it, at least online, towards simple prescribed methods like Sheiko and 5/3/1
-I’m totally open to correction on this, it seems liek there’s been a bit of a movement in westside training itself, getting away from DE in favour of RE?
-Finally, I broke out of my “rut” and hit some PR’s. Lucky me!

What a difference 2 years makes.

does chuck even still train at westside?
[/quote]

No he trains at Lexen Xtreme as a leader of Team Xtreme with Matt Wenning now, I believe.