T Nation

Front Squat/Back Squat Correlation

My back squat is 300lbs

Front squat is ~225lbs

I’m gonna make a bold clame that 99% of the guys that don´t have their front squat somewhere over 70% of their back squat max aren’t actually putting up their back squat numbers anyway…meaning that their claimed 350 lbs back squat is really somewhere between a quarter and a half squat with some kind of weird heaving action in the middle.

My squat numbers are 140 kg and 110 kg so the ratio is 79 % and my deadlift is 220 kg.

[quote]RenaissanceMan wrote:
I’m gonna make a bold clame that 99% of the guys that don´t have their front squat somewhere over 70% of their back squat max aren’t actually putting up their back squat numbers anyway…

Meaning that their claimed 350 lbs back squat is really somewhere between a quarter and a half squat with some kind of weird heaving action in the middle.[/quote]

That is a bold claim but probably very true. As suggested above, the more frequently you FS, the greater your ratio should be. When I started oly lifting my ratio was probably around 60% and is roughly 90% now.

[quote]RenaissanceMan wrote:
I’m gonna make a bold clame that 99% of the guys that don´t have their front squat somewhere over 70% of their back squat max aren’t actually putting up their back squat numbers anyway…meaning that their claimed 350 lbs back squat is really somewhere between a quarter and a half squat with some kind of weird heaving action in the middle.

My squat numbers are 140 kg and 110 kg so the ratio is 79 % and my deadlift is 220 kg.
[/quote]

Mine front/back ratio is likely slightly artificially low since they’ve been following back squats lately. However, my depth is fine.

[quote]RenaissanceMan wrote:
I’m gonna make a bold clame that 99% of the guys that don´t have their front squat somewhere over 70% of their back squat max aren’t actually putting up their back squat numbers anyway [/quote]

hey, I must be in the 1%.

on that period where I hit 205 x 3 belt and wraps I did 212.50kg second attempt in a suit that screwed my balance, as I never trained in it. It had worked before, and my larger suit had me do a easy 210 no wraps, but smaller suit pulled me out of my style.

Comp was Sydney Titles 1980 (Australia) and we had cat 1 & 2 IPF refs and my name in Terrence Gibbs

and in the period prior to it, I had struggled with bar up below = squats with 122.5 (hip flexor problems)so yep could probably front 130 and limped for a week.

Squatting is hip hammie back dominant, if you have restricted training time you use it where you think it will do the most good. Perfect world hey I would get deep tissue massage, lots of rest would have probably only worked one job, and maybe been able to train more than twice a week while studying at UNI part time buiding a carreer working 40 hours a week.

I cant back squat…weirdest shit, I tore my ACL, MCL Lateral Patela tendon…waited 3 months to do the surgery and ended up having to have all the miniscus and cartilage removed from my left knee…Back squats KILL ME!! I can only do like 150lbs back squat for 5 with out crying.

I just started experimenting with front squats about 2 months ago to see how it would feel and I really started going after it about a month ago and Im doing 260lbs 4 sets of 7 reps right now…(part of the Waterbury Vdiet phase 2 lifts.)

I feel real good doing them and it doesnt bother my knee much.

[quote]RenaissanceMan wrote:
I’m gonna make a bold clame that 99% of the guys that don´t have their front squat somewhere over 70% of their back squat max aren’t actually putting up their back squat numbers anyway…

Meaning that their claimed 350 lbs back squat is really somewhere between a quarter and a half squat with some kind of weird heaving action in the middle.
[/quote]

Totally agree with this statement. A 350 Ibs legit back squat and a 20O Ibs front squat? There’s something wrong…

[quote]GMH454 wrote:

hey, I must be in the 1%.

[/quote]

I’m not comparing suited back squat results to suitless front squat…both need to be raw (belt only) and about same depth (well below parallel).

I’ve been around a lot of IPF powerlifters (some with several world championship medals) and also I know many WPC/WPO lifters and I’ve yet to witness anyone capable of front squatting only around 50-60% of their raw back squat.

I know that many powerlifters regularly train the front squat with weights well below 70% of their raw max but it doesn’t mean that they aren’t able to hit a single with over 70 %…obviously front squat is an assistance lift for powerlifters and some don´t even use it at all when training for powerlifts which is just fine cause you can replace it with high bar squats (or neck squats as we say in Finland).

I bet this guy has troubles front squatting 70%

Back in the 70’s no-one did front squats. check those guys out 1000lbs IPF single ply suits, we havn’t come far. Do you reckon Dave Waddington could front squat 630. What about Jo Jo White ??

Can’t remember anyone doing front squats, still don’t know why you would. (flavour of the month, like crossfit and bbers doing - talking about doing- deads) George Frenn mentioned it in a Joe W, article but that also included calf raises, leg Exts and leg curls (LOL) so not sure if he did or did not.

and if you don’t practice a lift then your level of proficency is low, If you bench X then your oh press should be 66% of X. However in practice I have come across many good benchers with a press of around 50%, basically because they never press. Okay once they have been pressing for a few months it becomes 60%, but intially it is a lot less.

I found most Plers in late 70s, 80s had hard time doing a bar up OL squat with 70% of their power squat. ’

Had a close friend do 600 x 2 and I guarantee you he could not front 350 let alone 400.

something to do with specificy of training…

this thread started about a guy who power squatted and started doing fronts for the first time. Lots of people telling him he has a muscle imbalance. If he has not been front squatting would his front be 60, 70, 80% ??

[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
RenaissanceMan wrote:
I’m gonna make a bold clame that 99% of the guys that don´t have their front squat somewhere over 70% of their back squat max aren’t actually putting up their back squat numbers anyway…

Meaning that their claimed 350 lbs back squat is really somewhere between a quarter and a half squat with some kind of weird heaving action in the middle.

Totally agree with this statement. A 350 Ibs legit back squat and a 20O Ibs front squat? There’s something wrong…

[/quote]

Frankly, it doesnt matter to me whether you believe me. I am just answering the posters question from my perspective. I tore my meniscus 5 times in one wrestling season and it kept me from doing front squats for a long time, but back squats didn’t bother it.

I do in fact have a 450lb back squat, hips breaking parallel, and between a 200 and 225 front squat. I don’t know what it is for you, but for me there is no correlation between the two.

[quote]GMH454 wrote:
Can’t remember anyone doing front squats, still don’t know why you would. (flavour of the month, like crossfit and bbers doing - talking about doing- deads)
[/quote]

Ahem, oly lifters have a very functional use for them. Besides them, I think any functional exercise that introduce a little variety in workouts is a good thing.

Pardon me if my sarcasm meter didn’t pick up on your statement though…

this thread started about a guy who power squatted and started doing fronts for the first time. Lots of people telling him he has a muscle imbalance. If he has not been front squatting would his front be 60, 70, 80% ??

[/quote]

Yea I just wanted to know what a good balance was, or if there was a strong correlation between the two. I have not been front squatting for nearly as long as back squatting. So naturally even I would expect my front to suck, I just wanted to know about how much work I needed to put in for the front so I could be balanced.

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
To me this sounds like the skinny teenager asking about the ratio of C:P in his PWO drink when he only eats 2 meals a day. Stop worrying about stupid shit and just get stronger.[/quote]

Fair enough

All depends on what are your goals…if it’s only to increase your back squat (and not front) then there is no reason to do them necessarily if you are succeeding in your goals using other exercises.

If your goal is overall strength (like mine) then the stronger you are in it the better (nevermind the ratios beforehand…just aim to increase strength in all movements and let nature take care of any ratios)

But what you could do is give front squats a try and see what happens (to your other lifts) if your fronts go up… I know a lot of big squatters and deadlifters who really swear by front squats. Some advantages that I’ve heard others say (and agree myself) include the following:

  • builds your strength of the floor in the deadlift
  • strengthens your core in a way more specific to squat than say situps
  • builds the correct back posture in the squat

But if it turns out they do nothing for you then don’t use them.

I’m at around 70%, but then I know my low-bar squat could be better if I got my hips into it more. My good morning is still a bit higher than my back squat.

[quote]wfifer wrote:
I’m at around 70%, but then I know my low-bar squat could be better if I got my hips into it more. My good morning is still a bit higher than my back squat. [/quote]

You use more weight on a good morning than in a squat!?!?!

[quote]Bloobird wrote:
wfifer wrote:
I’m at around 70%, but then I know my low-bar squat could be better if I got my hips into it more. My good morning is still a bit higher than my back squat.

You use more weight on a good morning than in a squat!?!?![/quote]

I’m guessing it’s a 1/4 GM!

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Bloobird wrote:
wfifer wrote:
I’m at around 70%, but then I know my low-bar squat could be better if I got my hips into it more. My good morning is still a bit higher than my back squat.

You use more weight on a good morning than in a squat!?!?!

I’m guessing it’s a 1/4 GM![/quote]

I GM ass-to-grass.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Bloobird wrote:
wfifer wrote:
I’m at around 70%, but then I know my low-bar squat could be better if I got my hips into it more. My good morning is still a bit higher than my back squat.

You use more weight on a good morning than in a squat!?!?!

I’m guessing it’s a 1/4 GM!

I GM ass-to-grass.[/quote]

don’t you mean forehead to carpet…

sorry…