T Nation

From DAA to......this?


First time in this forum, but I thought this could be fun. There is only so much reading till I get bored, especially when the internetz is a mess of bad information, so why not get some thoughts from more guys in here?

The story....started reading up on d-aspartic acid, sounded out a company about bulk DAA, and got a response saying no, but a product is about to come out with DAA in it. However, on the label DAA wasn't the primary listed ingredient, raising my curiosity when I went to find out what each particular chemical actually was.

3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol (aka Epistane)
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2 (a progestin)
3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene (aka 1,4,6-Androstatrien-3,17-dione (ATD))
D-Aspartic Acid

What I am after here are opinions on this particular product (not an argument about "just take the real stuff", some of us aren't in positions to do that).

Clearly we have a company going down an interesting route, again, but is it any good? Bonez already provided an opinion in the original forum this was raised in, but I would like to hear opinions from others, or agreements with Bonez.

From Bonez "Thats a really shitty product. Not from a gains perspective but from the possible effects on the endocrine system. The first one is epistane. So that will shut down the HPTA if used long enough. And I bet theyre also selling an OTC product to use "post cycle" that will do nothing to actually restart the HPTA

the second is a progestin. similar to a birth control pill but may have anabolic properties, I dont really know. Id never touch that shit though.

The third is the drug used in "6-oxo". Which I THINK but I may be wrong is a mild aromatase inhibitor. Completely useless as non of the above drugs will convert to estrogen. Epistane also has mild anti-aromatase properties as well.

So basically people buying this may think theyre buying a DAA supplement but are in fact buying a an anabolic designer steroid (that works pretty well actually for what it is, but does have side effects). Companies like the one marketing that are the reason why legislators are going to pass a bill to regulate the supp industry. And every single dietary supp will see a huge price increase because of that."

The company label says for 8 weeks use only, then 4 weeks off, but as Bonez rightly pointed out they do also have their own line of OTC 'post cycle' products as well, that as far as I can tell are not well regarded either.

As far as things I've read, the various boards seem kindof 60-40 in favor of Epistane alone, but what say you guys about this interesting product?


Did you get the dosing of each compound in the mix? Even with the dosing if I were going to run a PH I would buy from a trusted company to make sure the given dosing is at least somewhat accurate.

Epistane is usually ran at 30-40 mg/day for 4-6 weeks, followed-up with a proper PCT (a SERM). The 2nd compound looks to be Max LMG (a progestin) which I wouldn't touch - the risk/reward of these compounds does not seem to be worth it to me. Apparently Max LMG is usually ran around 100 mg/day for 4-6 weeks.

If you want to run a PH I would do research and run one of the better compounds still available (such as Epistane - I think that is still legal) and run a proper SERM PCT.


Epistane, hdrol and superdrol as well as their clones are worth using.

Epistane is a very very good product actually for its cost, well designed, comparable to a moderate dose of common oral steroids such as var or winny, or a low dose of dbol. If I were to pick one, it is the one to use.

I have experimented with all three in conjunction with test and other injectables.

Hdrol was indeed very very similar to Tbol in effects, and is a very chemically similar drug.

Epistane kicked fast and brought fairly rapid strength gains and bodyfat reductions.

I do not recommend using anything besides these three. They are fairly safe.

Used in conjunction with an SERM PCT, risks are minimal.

Superdrol brought high strength gains, and fat reduction, along with "hardening" effects.


So the kicker on the above product is the unnecessary stack with the progestin and AI?

Sorry, no amounts on the label I currently have and my direct questions to the distributor have not been answered yet.


Havoc/epistane is definitely doesnt need to be combined with those other things. Ive used havoc by itself. It's alright. I dont recommend it but if the choices are only from the designer steroid pool its alright.


Youd really make better gains on an actual test-e cycle, 350 - 500 per week. Make sure you use nolva afterwards, and hcg right before the end of the cycle.


Yeah, no shit. Did you read the OPs post?


OP, I think you should deff avoid this route. If your going to use steroids which these PH's are, deff go for the real thing. A lot of my friends in school use these PH supplements and have had extremely bad sides some predictable, some not. My friend suffered from ED problems at 22 with proper pct (nolvadex), lasted about a year. If injectable steroids are not an option, you would do better avoiding these things all together. Getting your hands on 2 bottles of test to do a real cycle would be a much better choice in my opinion for your health and well being. And regardless of what any one told you your not going to go to prison for getting caught with a 140 dollars worth of testosterone. You'll probably get a fine. DO the real thing. Your liver and kidneys do not deserve second options or opinions.

Edit/ignore my post. missed the whole argument thing.


Haha, that's cool.

This thread is more educational for me than anything else, I am truly curious about how these products are marketed & sold, considering I was after DAA and got sent information about this.

I received a response to my queries to the distributor raising concerns about the 'hidden' ingredients (since this was directed to me after inquiring about DAA), and they acknowledged that a similar version of the product was available a few years ago, was extremely popular, then was ruled out by the FDA.

Forgive my naivete, but how popular is this product likely to be (I wasn't focussing on my rehabilitation practice through most of the 2000s so far so ignored alot of what was going on in the industry).........

....and how realistic would you say it is for people to experience side-effects with this (since I'm guessing people won't really know what they're getting into, hence the stickies in this forum strongly advising education and background research).

FYI, I commence new supplements on a progressive fashion, just started a caffeine/citruline/beta-alanine/leucine drink during workouts the last month and a half and will look at introducing DAA as the next thing.