only machine I used is lat row after pullups and leg ext/curl at the end of leg day.
TXguy, for squats why don’t you just set up in the power rack and if you miss it catches you. I haven’t used a spotter on squats in years.
[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
texasguy1 wrote:
The smith allows me to comfortably push myself with heavier weights knowing I can hook the bar if I need to.
Why don’t you just use a spotter?
I work out alone and at the hour I go my gym partners are senior citizens and soccer moms. [/quote]
I also work out with a lot of senior citizens and most are willing to give a hand. Maybe these are very senile, but where I live the senior citizens are into powerlifting so it is usually me giving the spot and answering questions on american methods of training.
I wouldn’t recommend you doing squats or other long range moves on the smith. It changes your path of motion and puts stress on other areas where you may get injured in the long term. If you want to use it do only for partials with extra heavy weight.
Better use the power cage and rig some other bars in case you get stuck. You will use the correct movement for the muscles and will develop those assistance muscles that play a very important part in INJURY prevention.
When I started It was mostly machines, then some friends introduced me to the free weights and took the time to explain to me all the power moves (squats, deads, bench, ohp, chins and dips). The best help anyone has ever done for me.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
I think isolation machines are just silly.
[/quote]
Thanks for your contribution. How much do you weigh, by the way?
I use what I think it called the “power squat.” I also use cables for rows and tricep pushdowns. I use the T-bar row as well.
Here are some other machine exercises:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/rage.htm
My honest opinion is that people who get worked up over machines and say, “Machines suck,” are pretty small people. It’s a way for little guys to “join the club” by sounding tough. But few people get big by keeping such a closed mind.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
My honest opinion is that people who get worked up over machines and say, “Machines suck,” are pretty small people. It’s a way for little guys to “join the club” by sounding tough. But few people get big by keeping such a closed mind. [/quote]
Bro, I am small. I’ll never be huge at 5’4" and a small bone frame! I’m not thick like Lee Priest! 
And for some reason, no matter how often I work out or how much weight I lift, I don’t get any taller. What the hell!!?!! 
Yes, I use mostly free weights because I have a home gym. But machines have their purpose. I was very happy to add the lat/row attachment to my power rack because that opened up many more possibilities in my training along with having the ability to perform leg curls and leg extensions. It also helped ease some of the constant pounding of only using free weights.
[photo]8528[/photo]
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
I think isolation machines are just silly.
Thanks for your contribution. How much do you weigh, by the way?[/quote]
185 after lunch. How many plates can you move on the hip adductor?
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
I think isolation machines are just silly.
Thanks for your contribution. How much do you weigh, by the way?
185 after lunch. How many plates can you move on the hip adductor? [/quote]
I would guess quite a few and you’d probably make a good post work out meal for him. Hip abductors and squats are two different animals though are they not?
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
I think isolation machines are just silly.
Thanks for your contribution. How much do you weigh, by the way?[/quote]
Well, I weigh 245 and I think most of them are silly too.
OP, your post made me realize that I’m not doing any machine stuff right now.
I train for strength, not cosmetics, so consider what I’m saying in that light, but I was interested to see your comment (OP) that your “size and strength develop just fine.” I have no doubt that someone can build plenty of size on machines exclusively. You can also build plently of strength on machines - strength that lets you lift heavier…on the machines.
Obviously if you do an exercise progressively you’re going to get stronger on it. Is that enough to say that you are a stronger person because of it? Maybe it is, I don’t know. But when you talk about being strong, there has to be a context…are you strong on the squat? bench press? etc…
So I’m wondering what you mean when you say you’re developing strength just fine. Obviously you’re going to get stronger in your Smith machine exercises if you’re doing them consistently. Are you getting stronger in the actual lifts? (BP and SQ) Do you care?
I will say for certain that if a high level of strength, either “real world” strength as in strongman-type stuff, or powerlifting or o-lifting strength is what you’re after, then you need to base your training around free weights. I think most people know this. By high level I don’t mean stronger than the average American, I mean very strong.
If you’re training for cosmetic goals, as the OP seems to be, then do whatever it takes to break down the tissue and eat properly to rebuild it. The means aren’t terribly important.
As far as your concern about your “supporting structure” or whatever you called it, it’s probably not a big deal unless you plan on challenging yourself with real lifts which take place in an unstable environment. Then it could be a problem.
This is the problem with beginners who develop some strength on machines and then switch to the big free weight lifts. They haven’t developed the coordination to move heavy weights in free space, but they’ve built enough strength to hurt themselves. Not a great idea.
Ramo said in a much more detailed way what I was saying on the last page. If strength is the primary focus then machines are useless and maybe worse. If size is the focus then any damn thing that puts the muscles under load to the point of requiring recovery will work. I do both.
I free squat, bench etc, but sometimes I’ll load up the Smith nice n heavy where I don’t have to worry about anything except pounding the hell outta whatever group I’m working, especially legs.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Bro, I am small. I’ll never be huge at 5’4" and a small bone frame! I’m not thick like Lee Priest! :P[/quote]
You are short but not small. There is a difference.
(I have the blast straps, too. Those things are great, aren’t they?)
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
(I have the blast straps, too. Those things are great, aren’t they?)[/quote]
Oh god I love blast straps. Definitely worth the investment.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
I think isolation machines are just silly.
Thanks for your contribution. How much do you weigh, by the way?
Well, I weigh 245 and I think most of them are silly too.
OP, your post made me realize that I’m not doing any machine stuff right now.
I train for strength, not cosmetics, so consider what I’m saying in that light, but I was interested to see your comment (OP) that your “size and strength develop just fine.” I have no doubt that someone can build plenty of size on machines exclusively. You can also build plently of strength on machines - strength that lets you lift heavier…on the machines.
Obviously if you do an exercise progressively you’re going to get stronger on it. Is that enough to say that you are a stronger person because of it? Maybe it is, I don’t know. But when you talk about being strong, there has to be a context…are you strong on the squat? bench press? etc…
So I’m wondering what you mean when you say you’re developing strength just fine. Obviously you’re going to get stronger in your Smith machine exercises if you’re doing them consistently. Are you getting stronger in the actual lifts? (BP and SQ) Do you care?
I will say for certain that if a high level of strength, either “real world” strength as in strongman-type stuff, or powerlifting or o-lifting strength is what you’re after, then you need to base your training around free weights. I think most people know this. By high level I don’t mean stronger than the average American, I mean very strong.
If you’re training for cosmetic goals, as the OP seems to be, then do whatever it takes to break down the tissue and eat properly to rebuild it. The means aren’t terribly important.
As far as your concern about your “supporting structure” or whatever you called it, it’s probably not a big deal unless you plan on challenging yourself with real lifts which take place in an unstable environment. Then it could be a problem.
This is the problem with beginners who develop some strength on machines and then switch to the big free weight lifts. They haven’t developed the coordination to move heavy weights in free space, but they’ve built enough strength to hurt themselves. Not a great idea.[/quote]
Well, when I say my strength and size are coming along fine, I mean they are coming along. I am getting stronger in the smith and it does transfer to free weights when I do find an open bench or spotter.
The amount I can lift in the smith is more than I can on free weights, but as my strength in the smith increases, so does my free weight strength pretty proportionately.
“Is that enough to say that you are a stronger person because of it? Maybe it is, I don’t know.” — not sure where you are going here but stronger is stronger? Is this a philosophical slant to your post?
When I talk about getting stronger I mean I am lifting more weight now than a month ago in all lifts… My question is if db shoulder and incline presses are enough to compliment the smith bp to avoid injury.
I’m fully aware of the benefits of freeweight training and am hoping the db excercises are enough to counter balance the smith in an attempt to prevent injury. From what I’ve found, the smith is effective at increasing both free weight bench and squat strength, it’s injury I’m concerned with.
I do train for aesthetics as well as strength. I’m not interested in strong man strength so much, my sport is grappling and amature mma.
Through out years of various athletics and lifting programs I’ve had plenty of freeweight training. And as I’ve said, my strength is coming along fine, as is size i already know this and stated this but thank you for the reinforcement.
Are dumbell presses enough to counter the risk of injury or not?
[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
Are dumbell presses enough to counter the risk of injury or not?
[/quote]
You can also add a set or two of push-ups with one hand on the medicine ball and the other on the ground. That’s really helped me out.
Get some blast straps. They will work your shoulder stabilizers at crazy angles. They are also awesome for ab walk outs (I don’t even use my ab wheel anymore), inverted rows, and dips.
IMHO, the risk of injury from using the smith machine is greatly exaggerated. If you did that for YEARS, maybe. But for a few weeks when you’re doing supplemental stuff? No reason that should be a problem.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
How many plates can you move on the hip adductor? [/quote]
Not sure. But I bet I could load enough weight on the power squat to blow out your lower back.
I also know my shots have gotten more explosive since I started using it. You probably don’t know what a “shot” is, though. I suspect you’re one of those guys who says he lifts weights so that he can defend himself, while also avoiding fights at all cost and not training in wrestling, jiu jitsu, or MMA.
A related rant: Everyone says, “Use free weights so you can be more functional.” Okay, what’s the function? Are you training for a sport? No. Oh, that’s right. You’re training to be a “bad ass.” What’s funny about that shtick?
In every fighting thread, the general consensus is that you should run from fights because a) you might get sued or b) you need to live to fight another day (though, oddly, that “another day” will never come). One dude never confronted the guy who called his wife a stupid bitch. Others have people escort them to their cars out of fear of other gym members.
Who do you guys think you are kidding?
Yet you same people who pray to the god of free weights don’t take any sort of fighting classes. And you wouldn’t fight even if you had to. So knock off this “functional” bullshit.
If I wasn’t currently training for something specific, I would lift for the following reasons (no specific order):
- vanity
- intimidation (big guys just don’t get bothered)
- sex appeal.
Other than power lifters, strong man competitors or other athletes, and life extension people, I suspect EVERYONE ELSE trains for one or all of those three reasons. How do I know this? Because you all want to stay “lean,” too. I read your desperate posts in the Sex in the Male Animal section. It’s obvious what your goals are.
If you really cared about “getting strong for stronger’s sake,” you wouldn’t care about bodyfat or freak when your abs weren’t showing. So by your very actions, you admit you are lifting for one of the above three reasons. By the way, there is nothing wrong with that!
But you can meet all three goals using exclusively machines. Hammer Strength makes good stuff.
So training with free weights doesn’t make you more “right” or “cool” than people using machines. And it certainly doesn’t make you more capable to handle yourself in a fight.
So get off your high horse. Some of the biggest people in the gyms are using 75% machines. How many big guys are in the gym whose only free weight movement is bench and curls, but who still have huge backs and legs from leg presses, lat pulldowns, t-bar rows, and other assorted machine workouts? The answer, lots.
I use free weights for what I can but things like the tricep pushdown and lat pulldown, well you need the cable stack
[quote]anthropocentric wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
(I have the blast straps, too. Those things are great, aren’t they?)
Oh god I love blast straps. Definitely worth the investment.
[/quote]
Love’em!
They’re an even better deal once or twice a year when they go on sale for $49.99 or less!
My function is to be a largely muscled individual eventually. Leg presses get the job done just as well as back squats do, and arguably better since lower back fatigue isn’t a factor. I train to absolute positive failure and do so alone, machines are letting me get the job done when it’s not safe for me to use a free weight exercise.
About 7-8 months ago I hit a certain weight on the leg press for a heavy deep double, now I’m doing a 25 a side more for twenty and my legs don’t fit into 80% of my pants anymore. I deem leg presses 100% functional for my goals.
Reverse grip presses in the smith have gone up 75 lbs over a similar time frame and my arms are up just shy of 1.5 inches larger now(with horrible biceps. Let’s not dismiss machines and the like just yet when it comes to bodybuilding, ie the section of the forum we are in.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
How many plates can you move on the hip adductor?
Not sure. But I bet I could load enough weight on the power squat to blow out your lower back.
I also know my shots have gotten more explosive since I started using it. You probably don’t know what a “shot” is, though. I suspect you’re one of those guys who says he lifts weights so that he can defend himself, while also avoiding fights at all cost and not training in wrestling, jiu jitsu, or MMA.
A related rant: Everyone says, “Use free weights so you can be more functional.” Okay, what’s the function? Are you training for a sport? No. Oh, that’s right. You’re training to be a “bad ass.” What’s funny about that shtick?
In every fighting thread, the general consensus is that you should run from fights because a) you might get sued or b) you need to live to fight another day (though, oddly, that “another day” will never come). One dude never confronted the guy who called his wife a stupid bitch. Others have people escort them to their cars out of fear of other gym members.
Who do you guys think you are kidding?
Yet you same people who pray to the god of free weights don’t take any sort of fighting classes. And you wouldn’t fight even if you had to. So knock off this “functional” bullshit.
If I wasn’t currently training for something specific, I would lift for the following reasons (no specific order):
- vanity
- intimidation (big guys just don’t get bothered)
- sex appeal.
Other than power lifters, strong man competitors or other athletes, and life extension people, I suspect EVERYONE ELSE trains for one or all of those three reasons. How do I know this? Because you all want to stay “lean,” too. I read your desperate posts in the Sex in the Male Animal section. It’s obvious what your goals are.
If you really cared about “getting strong for stronger’s sake,” you wouldn’t care about bodyfat or freak when your abs weren’t showing. So by your very actions, you admit you are lifting for one of the above three reasons. By the way, there is nothing wrong with that!
But you can meet all three goals using exclusively machines. Hammer Strength makes good stuff.
So training with free weights doesn’t make you more “right” or “cool” than people using machines. And it certainly doesn’t make you more capable to handle yourself in a fight.
So get off your high horse. Some of the biggest people in the gyms are using 75% machines. How many big guys are in the gym whose only free weight movement is bench and curls, but who still have huge backs and legs from leg presses, lat pulldowns, t-bar rows, and other assorted machine workouts? The answer, lots.[/quote]
Dang…good to have you back.
CaliforniaLaw where do you get off telling me I’m a Bruce Lee nut whose less of a man than you because you can load up a bunch of plates power squat machine and watch me injure myself trying to move 1400lbs? Being Able to load up a machine with weights doesn’t really display any significant amount of strength.
I said multi-joint machines are cool. That would include the Leg Press, the Back Attack, and the Power Squat.
I’m just trying to make the point that the tricep extension machine, the bicep curl machine, and the hip-slut machines are worthless. What you’ve done is skip through all of my post and assumed I said all machines are silly and pointless. I really don’t understand why you’re trying to pick an internet fight with me.
But as for your comment about all the huge guys in the gym using primarily machines, I’m not seeing it! And I’ve never seen anyone in real life use the T-Bar Machine who was big. I’ve seen big guys use the Chest-Supported one but not the standing T-Bar Row. The Standing T-Bar Row Machines are shit because they usually put your feet up on an angle which reduces your ability to bend over and forces you to do a shitty row Standing Up.
And Everyone with Big Legs Squats. That’s just the truth.
I say use free weights for your primary moves because free weights do a better job at everything. Machines have their place: at the end of a workout. The only isolation machines that you should ever use are the rear-delt machine and the calf machines. Compound move machines are fine for the end of a workout but are inferior to free weights. They’re great for moving weight without thinking. After I did Rack Lockouts and Incline Dumbbell Bench Press today I did the Chest Press Machine to get blood into my muscles. That’s how machines should be used. I’ll probably do high-rep Leg Press at the end of my Leg Day.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
texasguy1 wrote:
Are dumbell presses enough to counter the risk of injury or not?
You can also add a set or two of push-ups with one hand on the medicine ball and the other on the ground. That’s really helped me out.
Get some blast straps. They will work your shoulder stabilizers at crazy angles. They are also awesome for ab walk outs (I don’t even use my ab wheel anymore), inverted rows, and dips.
IMHO, the risk of injury from using the smith machine is greatly exaggerated. If you did that for YEARS, maybe. But for a few weeks when you’re doing supplemental stuff? No reason that should be a problem.[/quote]
I’ll have to check out those blast straps. They seem to be pretty popular.