T Nation

Free To Choose Series

Milton Friedman’s series Free to Choose for Free at

http://www.ideachannel.tv/

Dare I look?

Is this economics wielded as a political weapon to bludgeon people with or simply a bunch of interesting information.

Hmm, considering the forum I’m in, what are the odds?

[quote]sactown1 wrote:
Milton Friedman’s series Free to Choose for Free at

http://www.ideachannel.tv/ [/quote]

Awesome series, I own them all.

Milton Friedman was a great man and will be sadly missed.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Dare I look?

Is this economics wielded as a political weapon to bludgeon people with or simply a bunch of interesting information.

Hmm, considering the forum I’m in, what are the odds?[/quote]

It’s one of the most famous and highly rated mini-series of all time on public TV, even though PBS tried to kill it in some markets (in NYC they scheduled it opposite the Super Bowl…).

What if the majority of individuals are idiots and they choose incorrectly and it affects the rest of society in a negative way?

Do you really think individuals should be trusted to choose everything for themselves? Is there a benchmark to distinguish what should be dictated by our individuality and what should be dictated by society?

I do not think society can work without a strong centralized power structure to help make and influence choices.

Is socialism that bad?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What if the majority of individuals are idiots and they choose incorrectly and it affects the rest of society in a negative way?[/quote]

Isn’t this is a democracy? The whole idea behind libertarian/laissez faire capitalist ideas and policies is that other individuals should have the least amount of influence on your life, you should be free to do as you choose as long as you don’t infringe upon others right to do the same.

You are worried about the majority making poor choices and then you advocated a system that puts a huge amount of power with the majority? Please explain.

[quote]
Do you really think individuals should be trusted to choose everything for themselves?[/quote]

Yes I do, what right do you have to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own life. I believe in self-ownership and to deny this is to imply that someone else or a group of people has a higher claim on my life then I do.

[quote]
Is there a benchmark to distinguish what should be dictated by our individuality and what should be dictated by society?

I do not think society can work without a strong centralized power structure to help make and influence choices.

Is socialism that bad?[/quote]
yes

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What if the majority of individuals are idiots and they choose incorrectly and it affects the rest of society in a negative way?[/quote]

[quote]Do you really think individuals should be trusted to choose everything for themselves?
Is there a benchmark to distinguish what should be dictated by our individuality and what should be dictated by society?

I do not think society can work without a strong centralized power structure to help make and influence choices.

Is socialism that bad?[/quote]

I don’t even know why I chose to respond to you. I had started to post a point by point response, only to find that you and I obviously have such completely disparate world views that I’m afraid it wouldn’t help get my point across and we would simply go back and forth, ad infinitum–it is almost like you and I speak completely different languages.

Lets just say I completely disagree with you, and I will never accept the notion that a bunch of people vested with the power of government (force) have the right to decide what I can and cannot be trusted with when it comes to my life, person, or property. I honestly get somewhat queazy when I am reminded that there are people out there who think like you (no doubt, more think like you than think like me).

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What if the majority of individuals are idiots and they choose incorrectly and it affects the rest of society in a negative way?

Do you really think individuals should be trusted to choose everything for themselves? Is there a benchmark to distinguish what should be dictated by our individuality and what should be dictated by society?

I do not think society can work without a strong centralized power structure to help make and influence choices.

Is socialism that bad?[/quote]
Do you think a strong centralized power structure is some type of all knowing superhuman institution which knows what is best for me and what is best for you. Governement will make decisions to prolong its existence and decisions that are in its own interest.

To say that a certain choice is incorrect or wrong is very subjective, the acting individual knows what position he is in and knows ultimately what is good for him. The ultimate end of a person’s actions is the satisfaction of some desire or need. Since nobody is in a position to substitute their own value judgements for those of the individual, it is not justified to pass judgements on that individuals aims or decisions.

[quote]sactown1 wrote:

To say that a certain choice is incorrect or wrong is very subjective, the acting individual knows what position he is in and knows ultimately what is good for him. The ultimate end of a person’s actions is the satisfaction of some desire or need. Since nobody is in a position to substitute their own value judgements for those of the individual, it is not justified to pass judgements on that individuals aims or decisions.

[/quote]

I don’t know. It sounds like utopianism to me.

Governments are a necessity otherwise they wouldn’t exist. The degree to which they are necessary is debatable on all levels. I belive in a government that is just and protects the weak–as well as protecting our unalinenable freedoms. I believe the core philosophy of “Free to Choose” is counterintuitive to a just society.

The problem is that most people only act in self-interest; which is fine in most cases but when it impedes others freedoms it is not good. Big business gets away with this every day. Why would I want individuals behaving (either intentionally or unintentionally) in this same manner? Governments help regulate personal behavior; for example, I can’t shoot my neighbor because he likes to listen to Bon Jovi, Livin’ on Prayer at 1000db at 6am every morning even though I have a right not to listen to crap.

This does not mean I do not beleive in personal liberty–Hell, Rock On! Bon Jovi–I just don’t like to Rock at 6am. I do not belive an individual’s liberty should be limitless.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
sactown1 wrote:

To say that a certain choice is incorrect or wrong is very subjective, the acting individual knows what position he is in and knows ultimately what is good for him. The ultimate end of a person’s actions is the satisfaction of some desire or need. Since nobody is in a position to substitute their own value judgements for those of the individual, it is not justified to pass judgements on that individuals aims or decisions.

I don’t know. It sounds like utopianism to me.

Governments are a necessity otherwise they wouldn’t exist. The degree to which they are necessary is debatable on all levels. I belive in a government that is just and protects the weak–as well as protecting our unalinenable freedoms. I believe the core philosophy of “Free to Choose” is counterintuitive to a just society.

The problem is that most people only act in self-interest; which is fine in most cases but when it impedes others freedoms it is not good. Big business gets away with this every day. Why would I want individuals behaving (either intentionally or unintentionally) in this same manner? Governments help regulate personal behavior; for example, I can’t shoot my neighbor because he likes to listen to Bon Jovi, Livin’ on Prayer at 1000db at 6am every morning even though I have a right not to listen to crap.

This does not mean I do not beleive in personal liberty–Hell, Rock On! Bon Jovi–I just don’t like to Rock at 6am. I do not belive an individual’s liberty should be limitless.[/quote]

I never said that government is not a necessity, Government is a necessary institution to make the social system of cooperation work smoothly without it being interrupted by the violent acts of of criminals and other people seeking to invade an individuals property. Government is the means to make peaceful coexistence possible. No one advocates limitless freedom, Milton Friedman and others advocate Liberty, an individual is free to do as he wishes as long as he does not violate anothers right to do the same. In other words physical invasion of property, violent acts, fraud, and other acts of aggression would be violating an individuals rights and that is where government’s essential role is.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
sactown1 wrote:

To say that a certain choice is incorrect or wrong is very subjective, the acting individual knows what position he is in and knows ultimately what is good for him. The ultimate end of a person’s actions is the satisfaction of some desire or need. Since nobody is in a position to substitute their own value judgements for those of the individual, it is not justified to pass judgements on that individuals aims or decisions.

I don’t know. It sounds like utopianism to me.[/quote]

It is not utopianism, it is Human action.