T Nation

Free Market Bailed Out

http://www.therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2380

Setting aside that this is just another one of your worthless links to “The Real News” (!!!)…the free market wasn’t bailed out. The socialized-risk, private-profit market was bailed out.

Nothing has been bailed out yet.

The free market was “bailed out” a long time ago and hasn’t been a “free market” in a very, very long time.

Zep,

Please expound on this. What is the point? Do you not believe in free markets? (Note: F/F is not free market).

If more shit hits the fan with $700 billion being printed to “bail out” the economy we are in a hell of a lot more trouble.

So we are far from out of this no matter how much people want to use the term bailed out.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Setting aside that this is just another one of your worthless links to “The Real News” (!!!)…the free market wasn’t bailed out. The socialized-risk, private-profit market was bailed out.[/quote]

As opposed to the corporate propaganda that you believe in!

Yes the public is going to pay for this but will they see any return? Doubtful.

The redistribution is coming from the public and the gains(if any) is going to be privatized.

What happened to all the good things that come with deregulation? Sorta like the S&L crisis.

Where is Milton Friedman when you need someone to justify all of the abuses that come along with deregulation.

Consevatives would be screaming their heads off - prior to the meltdown - if anyone talked about more regulation. So what’s the difference now?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Nothing has been bailed out yet. [/quote]

I’m holding out hope that time is made to reconsider this whole plan. I don’t like it and Newt didn’t say anything tonight to make me like it any better.

At Lehman, 2 Billion USD is going to 100 people for bonuses. They can’t pay their rank and file employee’s but are paying this so these 100 people don’t quit…

Greed is good.
Get the government off our backs.
Burdensome regulations.
Here we are after the S and L, after Enron and we still haven’t learned-government has a responsibility and it has dropped the ball.

I think people are missing the fact that this whole problem happened in a hightly regulated, government heavy program. As is always the case, everything the government touches, it ruins, and the 50% of people who actually work and pay taxes end up paying for it.

And to Bush’s credit (you won’t hear me say that often) he tried to fix some of this 5 years ago and was met by a stonewall re: Barney “Stick it in my Pooper” Frank, D-MA.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Nothing has been bailed out yet. [/quote]

Yes but it will be and to be honest, I don’t know what to make of it. How bad would it be really to let these companies fall on their ass? They took wild risks that failed miserably, but they did it with other peoples money.

In any event it will be a tax payers burden. If these companies go belly up and file for bankruptcy then their debts are ours anyway. So a “bail out” may be cheaper in the end.

What I won’t stand for is yet another CEO successfully ruining a company and then taking a multimillion dollar pay out. Anybody can do a bad job running a company, they don’t deserve a damn red cent, but they do deserve an unholy asswhipping.

[quote]Zeppelin795 said:
Free Market Bailed Out
[/quote]

It is extraordinary that many individuals still view perhaps the most heavily regulated sector of the economy, the financial industry, as “free market.” Despite the alleged “deregulation” (a false assertion despite the rhetoric espoused on television) the extreme regulation of many sectors of the economy as effectively created a system of neo-mercantilism (unfortunately, if mysteriously, this often confused with capitalism) coupled with socialism.

Indeed. The regulatory control apparatus is unfortunately ocompletely out of control.
[/quote]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I think people are missing the fact that this whole problem happened in a hightly regulated, government heavy program. As is always the case, everything the government touches, it ruins, and the 50% of people who actually work and pay taxes end up paying for it.

And to Bush’s credit (you won’t hear me say that often) he tried to fix some of this 5 years ago and was met by a stonewall re: Barney “Stick it in my Pooper” Frank, D-MA.[/quote]

That wasn’t the whole problem. It is part, but the plain and simple fact of the matter greed was the contributing factor. Freddie and Fanny were full of holes allowing the executors to suck it dry, while dolling out bad loans. Same with the private companies. Rather then managing the risks from giving loans to people with negative credit ratings, they spent and risked wildly and created gigantic holes. When people start hoarding the money at the top levels the money doesn’t trickle, it pools. Money that pools stagnates growth the the economy slows. The sheer volume of money being pooled at the top is staggering. I am not for wealth redistribution, but I am all for lining the cocksuckers up and filling them full of hot lead. They brought us to our knees and now the government will grow.
If they bail these bastards out, they need to pay off the debts and shut their doors forever. The assholes who got us into this mess should be investigated and never be allow to touch the private sector again.

[quote]pat wrote:
It is part, but the plain and simple fact of the matter greed was the contributing factor. [/quote]

Pat, it wasn’t greed so much as it was greed and protectionism. All the executive officers of any giant investment firm have to do is cry to The Media that a collapse will destroy the American economy and the politicians will bend to their will. These people know that they never really have to get it right because they hold the key to government: fear.

This is to refute the argument that what happened was a “market failure,” as if government intervention hadn’t been occurring all along.

The problem is to correct the government policies that have created large-scale malinvestment without inducing a systemic failure - meaning, without causing the problem to spill out of the financial sector and onto Main Street.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pat wrote:
It is part, but the plain and simple fact of the matter greed was the contributing factor.

Pat, it wasn’t greed so much as it was greed and protectionism. All the executive officers of any giant investment firm have to do is cry to The Media that a collapse will destroy the American economy and the politicians will bend to their will. These people know that they never really have to get it right because they hold the key to government: fear.[/quote]

The protectionism is part 2.

[quote]pat wrote:
The protectionism is part 2.[/quote]

Yet without protectionism corporations can remain as “greedy” as they see fit and will be punished by the market when their greed out paces the consumers demand for goods. Corporations can only profit so much before consumers pull back from consumption. With tightening credit we will see a large pull-back in consumer’s goods. I am really curious how this Christmas is going to play out.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Setting aside that this is just another one of your worthless links to “The Real News” (!!!)…the free market wasn’t bailed out. The socialized-risk, private-profit market was bailed out.

As opposed to the corporate propaganda that you believe in!
[/quote]
What corporate propaganda? If you mean books on economics then I am sure you are safe. good job

Why don’t you read what you just typed. Tell me how tax payer bailouts of protected private companies is a free market. Go look up the definition of free market capitalism and facism and see which one fits.

Friedman would have let these guys hang. Gov’t is to blame here, not the market. If there were any crime commited here, it would be tried. If you made some ill advised investments, shame on you. Regulation is what provides us with this efficient system of a few behemoths that take down the entire market if they fail. That along with the Fed.

Less regulation = more competition = a couple of companies failing doesn’t take the whole market with them. Simple enough?

Should this really happen, it will be a huge mistake. Companies will all line up for a bailout, if the first one takes place. I personally dont like my tax dollars being spent on other people’s stupidity and foolishness. You need to be your accountant.