T Nation

Fourth Log


Should be starting this sometime in the next two weeks. It will be my first time with Tren. Ideally I would have gone with Tren A because of this, but due to an already planned trip, I opted for Tren E so I could 'travel light'. I was planning on doing 8 weeks, but because of the longer esters I may go for 9-10 weeks.
I was thinking about frontloading, but I won't have enough Tren for 8 weeks @ 600mg/wk if I frontload.

However I will have more than enough Test to frontload but I don't think that would be the best idea given that the consensus is to run Test at half or less than half the tren dosage.
So the only other option if frontloading, would be to frontload both and then run Tren for 7 weeks and the Test for 9, but double the test dose once off tren.

The basic idea will look like this:

Tren E: 600mg/wk weeks 1-8
Test E: 300mg/wk weeks 1-8 (or 10)
Dbol 50mg/30mg/day (training/non-training) weeks 1-4
Winstrol 50mg/30mg (training/non-training) weeks 6-10 (or 8-12)

adex as needed; start off with .25mg EOD

Standard PCT- tomox. 40/40/20/20. Weeks 10-14 (or 12-16)

No HCG- probably going to try it next time.

And as always- a peace offering:


Im thinking of doing a cycle like this next summer, it will also be my first time with tren, So i'm very interested to see how this goes.

what are your goals from this cycle? gain mass? lose fat? or both? (maybe one more then the other?)

also if you don't mind, what's your height/weight/estimated bf%?


I do like your taste in pictures... :wink:

If you can tolerate that much Tren you're in for one hell of a ride! Shame you can't throw Materon in :frowning:

Good luck; I'm looking forwards to hearing how you get on with this.



Both- more losing fat though. Bodyfat is through the roof right now. It got bad when I was playing shows/touring with a band five hours away and couldn't work out as much as I wanted plus had to eat like shit on the road constantly. Now that that's been over for a couple months I've started to lose some bodyfat and I've been doing intermittent fasting which has been nothing short of amazing. It's allowed me to drop bodyfat and gain muscle at the same time. It's like the natural version of steroids. Can't recommend it enough.

Height- 6'2"
Weight- 220lbs
BF%- 17% (not an estimate) Hoping to get it a little lower before starting.

I have a relatively easy time gaining weight/losing weight so I've got pretty high expectations during the winny phase of this cycle. Last time I took winny I was still in that band and not having a very clean diet and I was still losing bodyfat so I think this time around the results will be much more dramatic. Only concern is blood pressure. Need to keep a close eye on it, possibly get some meds for it.


My stuff came- after only a week. Found it in my box OPEN, with the inside envelope OPEN as well, but all contents were still inside. Clearly it had been gone through, but I don't know what that means. It was very obvious what was inside- as the vials bottles were not concealed in anything. Kind of surprised to see that my:
Test was from India
Nolva also from India
Tren was from Bulgaria?
Adex from the UAE
Winny & Dbol from Brazil.

The Tren was also 200mg/ml which means I've had to re-vamp my layout since I would've only had enough Tren for 6 1/3 wk at 600mg/wk. So I'm now going to run:

Tren: 500mg/wk (wks 1-8)
Test: 250mg/wk (wks 1-8)
dbol: 50mg/day (wks 1-4)
winny: 50mg/day (wks 6-10)

I will have a shit ton of Test left over after this which is going to make me want to run the cycle longer, but I need to ****remember**** not to do that; just save it for the next one.

Also the Test came in 1ml/amps with the tops that break off- which is kind of a pain in the ass since I'll only be using .5ml per injection. I'll have to store the extra. I'm also told I can draw the test & tren with the same needle/syringe and inject together (obviously with a different needle). I hadn't planned on doing that, but it seems a lot easier (injection wise- not drawing wise). I know there are others on here that have done that, is it easier or a pain in the ass overall?


Alright, got this cycle underway earlier tonight. Injections will be every Friday and Tuesday. I did the Tren in VG and did the Test in my delt. No blood at all on either injection. Didn't miss a beat. Just like riding a bike. Going forward I will do them together as one injection.

Here's looking forward to this cycle. (And a nice pic to go with my mood, lol.....)


^Is that Aletta Ocean?




Just started the third week. The Tren is kicking in. Haven't had any issues with sleep or anything else. I've felt that I get a little warmer than normal sometimes, but that's about it. I'm actually not even sweating that much in the gym, which I think is kind of weird. Tonight was the first night I was feeling kind of winded. Haven't had issues w/ cardio, but haven't been able to do as much as I'd like.

I just got back from a five-day vacation during which I only got to work out once and ate like SHIT the entire time. I had only two meals that maybe weren't total shit. Sure enough, I get home and somehow my bodyfat% actually dropped- LOL. Fucking awesome. The strength gains are...minimal, which I think is really weird. It's a different dbol this time, but man it is not on par at all with the other stuff that I took. About 8-10 days in and my bench hadn't even gone up. I'm up 11 lbs now though.

Had a great leg workout tonight. Tried to squat a few days ago for the first time in about 10 months. That was a rude awakening. No amount of leg press can substitute for squats. I may slowly ease back into it. Going to work with front squats in the smith for awhile. They feel pretty good.

In other news I had the worst injection(s) of my life before I left for vacation. I was doing double the amounts since I wouldn't be able to get another inj. in for a week. Tried doing 1ml Test E in my left delt first. Got a little over 1/3rd of the way through it and had to abandon it because I just could not force the oil through the syringe. It was insane and frustrating as fuck. Sure enough, most of it came back out. Tried the other shoulder, SAME FUCKING THING. Had to have my old lady finish it for me and then of course that one bled out too. The whole thing took probably 15 minutes. The Tren one ended with more coming out than normal too. I think there was just too much Test in the syringe when I did it. I did my first inj. since the last one on Friday with only .5ml and it was fine. Anything over .6-.7 seems to be too much of a pain in the ass.

Will report back later with more.


So I should be stopping the dbol phase of this at the end of the week. It looks like I'm only going to have enough Tren for 6 1/2, 7 weeks at most, so I am contemplating one of two possibilities.

1) up the Tren dosage to the amount I should have been able to run in the first place (600mg/wk) and ride it out til the end (probably only 6 weeks total) and tag another two weeks of Test on.

2) Keep the Tren at the same dose, but up the Test- perhaps to a 1:1 ratio.

I figure this would be a good time to see what/if any side effects occur for me at that ratio. My only concern really with option 1) is while the Tren is leaving my system the Test will be increasing and most people seem to suffer the Tren sides with a Test>Tren ratio. Granted that would probably only be for a week, week and a half.

I kind of plan on upping the test after dbol anyway.

I'll go through with one of these unless someone can give me a good reason not to.


I've been done with the Dbol now for about 6 days- a little bummed about that. And though I'm up 17-18 lbs, the strength gains weren't exactly up to what I'm use to. I really dig the Tren so far though. It's weird, at night I'll start to get really warm, but when I sleep I never have 'night sweats' (which I almost always did before when on just Test/dbol). Even at the gym, I don't really get that sweaty. (Could be because they like to keep it at a cool -35 F). I bumped up the Test to 500 now, so I'll be running Test/Tren at a 1:1 ratio and see how it goes for me.

I also had, what I would say was the most fucked up injection I've ever done, yesterday. My fiance' was doing the inj. for me (ventroglute) and I heard a 'popping' sound I guess I would call it, and looked down to see that muscle almost like twitching?, popped again, needle keeps going in further, another pop and another. Four total I think. She told me that had happened before (don't know how I don't remember that) but not to that degree of severity. She said it was the skin breaking, but she's also a woman. I'm thinking it may have had to do with scar tissue build-up. We use 23g needles, but at the same time, I'm only (and have always only) doing two injections a week, switching sides each time, so it's not like there is a ridiculous amount of injections taking place. If that is the case, then I'm going to have to do some research to see what my options are for remedying the issue. I don't want to switch inj. sites.

Stoked to start on winny in about a week and a half.


I am currently running close to the same cycle as you and interesting enough was the same size at the start 6'2 220-225. Started off 400mg tren e a week and 500mg test. I just stared ramping up and am now doing 600mg of tren e and 750 test. unlike you tho I sweat my ass off other than that everyting is awesome. I was injecting every 3 days mixing the test and tren in the same syringe. switched it up to injecting every second day so I could inject smaller volumes. I am doing a longer cycle though 16 weeks in total. I frontloaded test for a week before I started the tren. Tren will be ran for about 9 weeks in total. I was thinking I might get some winny to run with the test at the end if money permits.

So far up 10 - 15 pounds fuckin extra large t shirts are getting to small. I hit 338 on the scale just the other day biggest I have ever been. No real fat loss to speak of but diet has not changed so thats expected. I am smashing all my PR's in the gym strongest I have ever been. I feel great agression is up a little but I don't mind that at all lol.

I look forward to your updates


Actually one of the reasons (or conveniences, rather) for me to up the Test amount was because the Test I got came in 1ml amps- (250mg/ml) so every other inj. I was having to store half of the test in an insulin syringe and then just doing a delt inj. along with the Tren. It's so much easier to just do it all in one though.
I should also state that I actually dropped to 215 before starting this cycle thanks to that Detox stuff from Intek (can't remember if I mentioned that above). That stuff is legit. I'm going to throw it in once I start the winstrol portion of this cycle and it should do wonders. The only thing you gotta be careful of is all the shitting. The non-stop, most putrid smelling, almost always liquid, shitting.

The only reason I'm bumping this again so soon is because I had an awesome workout tonight. I had assumed that since I was off dbol the strength gains were pretty much going to come to a halt- since that's what had always happened before (when on underdosed Test.) Not only did my bench go up from last week, but it somehow went up 20 lbs. I couldn't believe it. My bench has been all over the place. Starting out was really slow with the gains, even on dbol, then it would go up 15 lbs, then I thought it'd go up again the next week, but it actually didn't go up at all. So tonight was awesome. My shoulder felt good which made it even that much sweeter. I haven't benched that much since my last cycle so I didn't know if it would be able to handle the weight, but it did pretty good. I'm looking leaner and leaner every day. Tren is just awesome. As long as the rest of the cycle goes good, I don't see a reason why I would ever do another cycle without it. Haven't had any sides.
Well no, that's not true. I was having that "finishing" problem that I think Cortes spoke of in regards to Tren, but I think upping the test will help that. It's not even that bad- I'd compare it to like having sex/jacking it like 20 minutes after you just did the deed, so you're just not as 'focused' at times and that's what makes it more difficult. Cool story, bro?

Here's one from the vault:



i just started winny as well on 500mg test. im not seeing anything visual/scale changes yet (cutting) been at 20-30mg a day though.

question though, do you take it every X hours or any extra pre workout?

also about the detox stuff, did that just make you lose bloat/colon build up - assuming you only use it bc of dbol?


For Winstrol I usually take it throughout the day. I think last time I was doing like 20mg when I woke up and then 30 before the gym (always worked out at night). On an off day, I might split it up between 3-4 doses.
I might run it a little higher than 50mg this time only because I have a ridiculous amount of it. Bill Roberts has said though that there is not much benefit running it beyond 50mg/day.

I did the detox stuff right before I went on this cycle. I only did it for two weeks, but it was amazing. It gets rid of so much shit (pun intended) and bloat. I didn't even realize how bloated I was. The before and after pics were pretty dramatic. Probably the most worthwhile supplement (aside from AS) that I've ever used. The best part about it was that I didn't lose any muscle/strength at all while using it.


ohh, ive only been taking 10mg at waking, pre or post then before bed... does winny have a similar effect to d-bol when taking pre at that dose? just trying to play around with my timing.

mind posting before/afters of the cleanse? im interested


Prolly won't do any pics since everybody here is an IFBB pro/Mr. Olympia competitor and I have some fairly obvious attributes that would give me away.

I just started taking the Detox stuff again about two days ago and I'll finish off the bottle this time. Just started running Winstrol tonight as well so the combination of those two with the test/tren should be devastating (in a good way.) I will say this detox stuff is probably the most dangerous supplement I have ever taken- possibly even more so than AS.

You need to be really careful when taking it because it's quite volatile. It seems to happen out of nowhere, but when it strikes you, it will strike hard, and you'll know, you have 20, 30 minutes tops, to reach a bathroom that you can destroy. Under no circumstances should you use a public restroom- in fact I would be very weary of using any restroom other than your own. It's going to be loud and powerful and it's going to be the most awful, horrendous, bile smelling excrement that you've ever been witness to.

And 3-4 fours after you were just cleaned out and think it's over... it's time to party again. After a couple days when you're sure there's nothing left, you'll be proven wrong. It does what it's suppose to, just really dangerous if you ask me.

In other news, I love the tren. My muscles are getting hard as fuck. Lifts keep going up too. I may go for some PRs this time around. It's great. I'm still running test/tren at a 1:1 ratio and haven't had any increased sides. I had one pretty graphic/brutal nightmare but that was about it. I was actually looking forward to that since a lot of people reported that as a side. I figured that in conjunction with B6 should be nasty.

Also I need to find some new syringes/needles. I will make a separate thread for this to get recommendations. My old lady was being a cunt tonight and wasn't going to do the injection so I was just going to do the whole thing myself in my left delt (2.1ml or so, lol) I was using a 23g needle (since I already had it loaded), went to stick myself and the needle wouldn't go in.

There didn't seem to be anything wrong, so I re-swabbed and tried again, went just a tad in and barely broke the skin and wouldn't budge. I was just like what the fuck man? I've done it before in the delt with a 23g. It's the same shit that has been happening lately with the VG shots. I've always hated the fucking syringe/needles that I have now but it's like impossible to get anything in this state.

I use to get them at a pharmacy in Boston no problem, no questions. I can't even get fucking insulin syringes here without showing an ID and leaving an address (123 Fake St.) I really liked the precision glide ones, but apparently you can't order directly from them. Fucking bullshit.



How did it go you finish your cycle yet?


bump for results?


The cycle was less than stellar in the end. I had the roughest and longest recovery I've ever experienced. I remember during the last two Tren injections I started to experience what I think was 'tren cough'. It happened the same way both times, right before the injection was done. It only lasted a minute or two but it was pretty brutal. Not the laying on the ground convulsing kind of bad, but very hard to breathe, feels like your choking bad.
Lifts started to go down during PCT, which I also wasn't use to. I still had a net gain in strength, but The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth. It was the first time I used a new supplier and I really don't think everything was top quality even though it was suppose to be 'pharm grade'.

The tren was great, aside from the libido loss, but I was just really disappointed with the winstrol I had.

I'm not really sure if I would do tren again, but only because of the libido issue. It's more fun to just be on test and dbol/winny and climb the walls.

Probably should've updated this like a month ago when I remembered more.