T Nation

Four Week Havoc Run?

Never used a designer before, and in recent light of my bunk source and the difficulty of getting a resend (although there is a tad bit of progress), I have a acquired some havoc(epistane).

I know this definately is NOT a designer based forum, but I figured…since I got it, might as well log it. So this first post is more so a question posed to the rest of you guys on whether or not you’d like me to log my 4 week run with this or not.

Week 1 - 20mg/day
Week 2 - 30mg/day
Week 3 - 40mg/day
Week 4 - 40mg/day

PCT - Not sure on this one, but I’ll probably end up doing something like 40 30 20 20 or 40 30 20 10…any advice in that department would be great.

I have adex on hand just incase, however that shouldn’t be needed since this steroid itself is an anti estrogen by nature.

ALSO, my source has stated that they will resend, but of course a different UG brand and cypionate instead of prop…Hopefully I can get 4 vials of the cyp to replace the 6 vials of prop. If this holds through…I may actually save this as a kick since I do not have an orals at the moment.

Er… this is covered on my PH sticky.

[quote]I wrote:
4 weeks Havoc

Wk 1 - 10 10 20 20 30 30 30
Wk 2 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 3 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 4 - 40 40 40 40 40 40 40

Then 40/40/20 of Nolvadex/Tamoxifen

and get enough Cycle Support & Liv52 for the 4 week cycle + 3 week PCT. If you can I’d go as far as saying keep the Cycle Support & Liv52 going for one more week past the PCT.

I don’t think Carbolin 19, TRIBEX and Rhodiola are necessary until AFTER the cycle. Maybe start them during PCT and keep going as long as you deem necessary.[/quote]

From another thread:

[quote]I wrote:
I’m not a fan of IBE, I heard that they had several batches of Epistane that were woefully underdosed. Quite frankly, I think the product should be run as I’ve posted above.

Here is the product detail:

Epitiostanol
2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as plain methyl-test. Also apparently acts as a 17b-estradiol receptor antagonist.[/quote]

Although the Carbolin 19-19, TRIBEX & Rhodiola aren’t necessary.

Arimidex on hand is a good idea however.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Er… this is covered on my PH sticky.

I wrote:
4 weeks Havoc

Wk 1 - 10 10 20 20 30 30 30
Wk 2 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 3 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 4 - 40 40 40 40 40 40 40

Then 40/40/20 of Nolvadex/Tamoxifen

and get enough Cycle Support & Liv52 for the 4 week cycle + 3 week PCT. If you can I’d go as far as saying keep the Cycle Support & Liv52 going for one more week past the PCT.

I don’t think Carbolin 19, TRIBEX and Rhodiola are necessary until AFTER the cycle. Maybe start them during PCT and keep going as long as you deem necessary.

From another thread:

I wrote:
I’m not a fan of IBE, I heard that they had several batches of Epistane that were woefully underdosed. Quite frankly, I think the product should be run as I’ve posted above.

Here is the product detail:

Epitiostanol
2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as plain methyl-test. Also apparently acts as a 17b-estradiol receptor antagonist.

Although the Carbolin 19-19, TRIBEX & Rhodiola aren’t necessary.

Arimidex on hand is a good idea however.[/quote]

Bro…I know how you covered the dose in the PH sticky but I don’t feel thats set in stone. As far as dose goes for orals…its pretty subjective. It would be like me telling people they should only run dbol at 25mg.

Not trying to be a dick, just saying. I also realized after that the PCT was covered in your sticky, and thats how I’m going to run my PCT. I do not have epistane…I have RPN’s version…Havoc.

Sorry, I misread your post!

EDIT: Also, I added that second part in because you said Epi/Havoc was partially an Anti-Estrogen. I figured others would want to know why it’s considered to be anti-e (17b-estradiol receptor antagonist).

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Sorry, I misread your post!

EDIT: Also, I added that second part in because you said Epi/Havoc was partially an Anti-Estrogen. I figured others would want to know why it’s considered to be anti-e (17b-estradiol receptor antagonist).[/quote]

Thanks man…informative addition to this thread. I normally would not run a designer…and I’d much prefer to run test…but…well most know the deal on that…

[quote]facko wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Sorry, I misread your post!

EDIT: Also, I added that second part in because you said Epi/Havoc was partially an Anti-Estrogen. I figured others would want to know why it’s considered to be anti-e (17b-estradiol receptor antagonist).

Thanks man…informative addition to this thread. I normally would not run a designer…and I’d much prefer to run test…but…well most know the deal on that…[/quote]

Facko bro,

Look, these things get way blown out of propor…

If it was me, I would hit it hard the whole way through.
Most of the clowns that get into trouble with these prohormones are running them too far over recommended doses and/or not running an appropriate pct, or just plain picking the wrong one with no research.

With that said, I would go with 30mg/day right out of the gate, and all the way through, or hit up 40mg/day on the 3rd and 4th weeks if you have enough. I think they recommend maxing out on 30/day correct? Yeah, 10 over if that’s the case won’t do you in for 2 weeks.

“Dhuge” had a very accurate log and account, and I would look at his whole log and blog if you want an intelligent guy’s run with it to look at.

Your pct looks to me like it’s decent for this too, maybe overkill even.
I would say you’ll be fine with 30/20/20/10, or if you are that concerned, 40/30/20/10.

I have a decent load of experience with a lot of these from back in the day, and I tell ya, you do this and you’ll be fine. Don’t fuck around with little piddling amounts in the first week etc, just go for it and get the most out of it. Take your time off responsibly, do your pct either way, and you’ll be right as rain. It’s a bit like the oral steroid scare, most of the trouble comes from no pct or shitty pct, and overdosing by a good amount, not just 10mg/day more like 20-30/day with these boneheads on the various forums that talk about prohormones.

There are certainly specific designer steroids that are shitty, but this isn’t one of them. It’s pretty effective and mild in sides, lean, dry gains, anti-estro properties etc.

My wkout partner actually is currently on it as I recommended it to him and doing great with it. And I told him run it full power. He is still a bit gun shy and going with 30/day and zero problems/sides at all.

Good luck bro.

ToneBone

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
facko wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Sorry, I misread your post!

EDIT: Also, I added that second part in because you said Epi/Havoc was partially an Anti-Estrogen. I figured others would want to know why it’s considered to be anti-e (17b-estradiol receptor antagonist).

Thanks man…informative addition to this thread. I normally would not run a designer…and I’d much prefer to run test…but…well most know the deal on that…

Facko bro,

Look, these things get way blown out of propor…

If it was me, I would hit it hard the whole way through.
Most of the clowns that get into trouble with these prohormones are running them too far over recommended doses and/or not running an appropriate pct, or just plain picking the wrong one with no research.

With that said, I would go with 30mg/day right out of the gate, and all the way through, or hit up 40mg/day on the 3rd and 4th weeks if you have enough. I think they recommend maxing out on 30/day correct? Yeah, 10 over if that’s the case won’t do you in for 2 weeks.

“Dhuge” had a very accurate log and account, and I would look at his whole log and blog if you want an intelligent guy’s run with it to look at.

Your pct looks to me like it’s decent for this too, maybe overkill even.
I would say you’ll be fine with 30/20/20/10, or if you are that concerned, 40/30/20/10.

I have a decent load of experience with a lot of these from back in the day, and I tell ya, you do this and you’ll be fine. Don’t fuck around with little piddling amounts in the first week etc, just go for it and get the most out of it. Take your time off responsibly, do your pct either way, and you’ll be right as rain. It’s a bit like the oral steroid scare, most of the trouble comes from no pct or shitty pct, and overdosing by a good amount, not just 10mg/day more like 20-30/day with these boneheads on the various forums that talk about prohormones.

There are certainly specific designer steroids that are shitty, but this isn’t one of them. It’s pretty effective and mild in sides, lean, dry gains, anti-estro properties etc.

My wkout partner actually is currently on it as I recommended it to him and doing great with it. And I told him run it full power. He is still a bit gun shy and going with 30/day and zero problems/sides at all.

Good luck bro.

ToneBone[/quote]

I wish I had enough to go 30 from the gate…well actually I do…but the only reason I’m going 20 on the first week is so I have enough to bump it to 40 for the last two weeks. Which do you think will be more effective? 30 all the way through and 40 on the last week or 20 on the first 30 on the second and 40 40?

Here is dhuge’s protocol

Week 1 - dose every day (7 days) at 10, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20
Week 2 - dose every day at 30
Week 3 - dose every day at 30
Week 4 - dose every day at 40

I just ramped it up quicker because from what I’ve seen, the taper is only to gauge how you react to it.

Well basically…on day 3 today at 20mg a day. Nothing really to note so far…eating hasn’t been great this weekend, and I have sat, sun off. We will see how my training goes tomorrow. I would like to start doing cardio, since I never do.

And perhaps eat a little less than I normally would and extremely clean and frequent. See if I can get my bodyfat down and retain muscle and possibly gain strength.

Do you have enough to ramp it up faster?

Watch out for the back pumps. I hope you have Taurine on hand. I got to watch my mates go through back pumps.

Hilarious to watch, but I’m sure they didn’t enjoy it so much…

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Do you have enough to ramp it up faster?

Watch out for the back pumps. I hope you have Taurine on hand. I got to watch my mates go through back pumps.

Hilarious to watch, but I’m sure they didn’t enjoy it so much…[/quote]

Haha…yea man I do have taurine on hand. I’m on break from work…won’t be able to train until around 630 tonight. I’ll post back after.

This stuff is the real deal. Did chest and tris today. I set a PR on bench. 10 lbs heavier than my max last week. And its only the 4th day at only 20mg. This stuff is the real deal. Everything seemed lighter, trained extremely hard. Everythings good…now I just need to start hitting that cardio, and focusing harder on my diet.

[quote]facko wrote:
This stuff is the real deal. Did chest and tris today. I set a PR on bench. 10 lbs heavier than my max last week. And its only the 4th day at only 20mg. This stuff is the real deal. Everything seemed lighter, trained extremely hard. Everythings good…now I just need to start hitting that cardio, and focusing harder on my diet. [/quote]

Yeah you do, watching you do this shit gets me excited for my run on it.

updates?

[quote]BarebackMountain wrote:
facko wrote:
This stuff is the real deal. Did chest and tris today. I set a PR on bench. 10 lbs heavier than my max last week. And its only the 4th day at only 20mg. This stuff is the real deal. Everything seemed lighter, trained extremely hard. Everythings good…now I just need to start hitting that cardio, and focusing harder on my diet.

Yeah you do, watching you do this shit gets me excited for my run on it.
[/quote]
barebackmountain <---------thats funny