I just hate it when people write in <FONT COLOR="#00A000">green</FONT> Green. Doncha?
If you don’t know how to use semicolons, don’t use them.
How did I forget?!
If you can't post your name, shut up.
Semi-Colons and Commas (Sp…) serve a different purpose on the internet than in common print medium.
They are more often used to seperate the flow of phrases and thoughts to preserve readability, than they are to comply with english usage.
Using commas and semicolons like this, in order to make things more readable, isn’t wrong; however using semicolons to seperate idependant clauses isn’t wrong either.
If the post is legible enough to read, and you understand it; Shut Up.
However many pains those tricky words in grammar gave me, they were nothing compared to the punctuation signs, which were apparently made to make as much confusion as possible. Periods, commas, question marks, exclamation marks, and a pile of other signs, which poor me has to know where to place, regardless of whether he will ever have use for those signs later in his life. Even today, I know an officer who, like me, learned grammar, and who claims it did nothing but introduce confusion into his life.
–Take, for example those dastardly signs–, he complained.
–Before I was taught punctiation, I simply wrote, and wrote, and wrote some more, lining up the words like laundry on a clothesline. Now please tell me, how do you think you would like to see commas and periods on your mother’s underwear? I can understand the exclamation sign, however. Whenever I write to someone higher-ranking than myself, I place an exclamation sign in the text for effect.
–I also know of a case where a commander of a border-patrol squad got his report returned to him by the head office because it lacked any punctuation. The officers didn’t know in his border conflict, whether the conflict actually happened, whether the smuggler mob boss got killed, or whether the person who was actually killed was the commander who wrote the report. The commander, who was never a great fan of periods and commas, and could even be said, a great enemy of theirs, was placed into a great confusion by this most strange request. To him, it would be far easier to lead a night-long conflict with 25 local bandits than to place such an inordinate amount of periods and commas into his report. To get himself out of this most grievious situation, he took a fresh page of paper, folded it over, and wrote ten periods and fifteen commas. He then stapled this page to his report and sent it back to the head office, saying that the office itself should decide where the commas and periods should be placed in the text. He added that if any commas or periods should remain taskless, the officers should feel free to dismiss them for now.
I just don’t know why those periods and commas gave me such trouble, because I remember very vividly that my teacher was extremely good at explaining their use to the class. This is what he said:
–There is a train that needs to travel between New York and LA. There. When it finishes the trip, that is, when it gets to LA, the train then finishes what it wanted; his thought was to travel from NY to LA and he fulfilled that thought. And one thought over and done is called a sentence. At the end of its thought, the train stops and can go no further. That means, at the end of a sentence you must say ‘stop and go no further’, which is denoted by a period. So at the end of a sentence, you must place a period. Yes, but the train can’t simply go from NY to LA in one go; it’s a very long journey. It needs to stop somewhere where there are other trains, to pick up fuel, to pick-up/drop off passengers. So the train must make long stops and short stops. You see, on the journey there are larger and smaller train stations. Every big station where there are restaurants, where the passenger can buy refreshments, is a semicolon. There are also smaller stations, where the train stops for just a moment, and these are denoted by commas. Is this clear?
So I can use semicolons incorrectly, but I can’t type “u” instead of “you”? I would wager to say that constructions such as “ur”, “u”, “4” (to signify “for”), amongst others, have permanently established themselves in modern internet parlance. Why are these constructions looked down upon on this board while semicolon errors are allowed to proliferate?
At this point, some readers might object: using bad grammar makes one look stupid. I agree with this sentiment, but I’m curious as to why certain grammatical errors are so vehemently protested against. Suppose I think people who use the semicolon incorrectly are morons. Rob Fischer argues that semicolons are used differently on the internet than in standard print, so, am I right to understand that those who incorrectly use the semicolon are somehow absolved of their grammatical errors simply because of the media? It would seem, at least to me, that those who use “ur” (for example) should be given similar absolution.
Of course, I’m sure many readers of this thread are thinking: who cares about silly semicolons? Although it may not seem to be the case, I find myself asking similar questions: who cares if someone used “ur” instead of your? For that matter, who cares if somebody used “they’re” instead of “their” or “there”? Many threads have been hijacked by the grammar police who insist that “ur” is not a sufficient transcription of “your.” But, as Rob Fischer said, “If the post is legible enough to read, and you understand it; [sic] Shut Up.” Couldn’t have said it better myself, Rob.
If, by this point, some readers of this post are itching to respond and flame me, I apologize. I do not mean to offend any by my post, so if I have done so, I must not fully understand the situation. Perhaps I am underestimating the gravity of using “ur” instead of “your.” Thus, would someone kindly explain to me this forum’s whimsical and hypocritical grammatical standard? Thank you.
What is the problem with periods I have not seen this on the forum You must keep form getting so taxed about little things I’ve never seen this When have you seen this I don’t know what your talking about
You’re right, I don’t know what I was thinking.
If my use of : or , or ; is really pissing you off then you need to back of whatever supplement you are taking right now.
I understand your points, and I agree with you in that it’s very difficult to draw the line between what’s acceptable and what’s not, as this is quite a subjective topic. However, one difference between a purposeful mispelling like “ur” and the misuse of a semicolon is that while the misuse of a semicolon, if noticed, comes across as slightly ignorant (semicolons and the like are not properly used by a lot of people), the use of a word like “ur” comes across as both ignorant and juvenile. (Think AOL chatroom with 14 year olds.) The mispellings come across as cutesy (I’ll make up words if I need to) ways of communicating, similar to what you find on notes passed among middle school girls. Obviously, it’s completely the poster’s choice on how to post, but it’s the reader’s decision on what to think of it. Communication is about getting your ideas across to someone else in a form that THEY will understand and accept easily (their diction, idioms, etc.), not about expressing yourself with the least amount of effort.
If you can easily read the post, and it makes sense, from a gramatical standpoint, that is all that you should be concerned with. Anything else is majoring in the minors. There are much bigger issues with this forum as of late (which I addressed in my post) than simply typing “ur” instead of “your.” I know what that means and could care less if someone used it. How 'bout dealing with the real issues?
Jared: Thanks for the reply. I agree with, and had actually anticipated, what you said. Prescriptive grammar has always been of special interest to me, so it’s always nice to hear an articulate post on the subject.
Joel: I see no point in dealing with your so-called “real issues” because, at least for me, they aren’t issues at all. And quite frankly, I agree with colin: if the failure of a thread to comply with your checklist bothers you that much, you need to calm down and take a week off.
- You completely misunderstood the nature of Colin’s post.
2) They may not be issues to you, probably because you don't put the time into this forum that some do, but many forum vets are getting pretty sick of some of the stuff I have mentioned; thus the reason why you dont see their names on the boards that much any longer.
Have to agree with Joel here. I think that probably the main attraction of this board has always been the quality advice that one could get here. In earlier days, a lot of T-Mag contributors (Bill Roberts, John Berardi, Cy Willson and others) spent a lot of time around here, answering various questions. You’ll notice that they rarely make appearances anymore. Why? Some of the reasons that Joel listed, primary among which was a lack of willingness on the part of newer posters to do even the slightest bit of research into a question before posting it.
If you want an example, try doing a search for “finasteride”. You’ll find a good 30 minutes’ worth of reading, most of which is Bill Roberts answering the same damn question over and over again. Bill has the patience of a saint, but eventually he just gave up. Too much stupidity for one man to handle, I guess.
Now that the Biotest guys are more or less gone, it’s us Forum veterans who are providing the service. And it is a service, make no mistake about it. It’s very easy to look around the T/N and Steroid boards and see just how much advice is being given out - for free - to people who would be more or less clueless (or worse, who would rely on -shudder- Weider advice) without it. I don’t think that it’s too much to ask that the people posting the questions do a little proofreading and background research before they take up the Forum’s time.
But, of course, it’s up to each individual. If you’re not up for making your posts “minimally acceptable”, fine. Just don’t go complaining when no one answers them or gives you “screamer-esque” advice.
Finally, on the subject of semi-colons versus “ur”, I have to say that “ur” does, to me, interrupt the flow of reading in a way that Joel’s use of semi-colons above didn’t. If one were to mis-use a semi-colon in a sentence that disrupted the meaning/flow of the sentence, then I would object to that as well.
So for me, the admittedly subjective answer is, it depends. Doogie posted a while back making an argument for “dood”, saying that it had different connotations than “dude”. No problem there. But somehow “ur” disrupts things.
Dear Char: I am glad to see you are still fighting the battle against ignorance with fanatical fury. You remember that I was the first person to try to clean up this forum. All those ideas were mine. I am laughing out loud because I know the last few sentences made you tense!
Dear Joel Marion: I am impressed by your posting. You have passion. That is good. I agree with most of your points. However, if you are physically larger and have more education, you are entitled by natural law to dominate any situation. I also differ from you in one other aspect. You have to “major in the minors” before you can be considered major. It is all about the fundamentals. Basic grammar skills qualify as the fundamental basis of human interactions.
Would you mind if I changed my name from LightandFluffy to Jo Ma? How about J Mar? I could be Jo Mon? I’ve got it! How about noiraM leoJ? That has a ring to it. Ok, I’ll shut up now.
I wanted to chime in here only to offer my viewpoint. I happen to agree with Joel and Char on this issue, as I do most others, so please forgive me for any redundancy.
While what is appropriate use of grammer (incorrect or not) on the forum is highly subjective, I have to wonder about a few things.
I have been notcing that people who argue in favor of the validity of using terms (not words) like "ur" do not do so themselves. Quite the contrary. It seems that unless trying to prove a point, most of those arguing against people who have a problem with such terms have been typing arguments that are clear, concise, etc. Their posts are well thought out, well puntuated, and none of them appear to be the work of semi-educated teens who think that being what they consider to be "internet-savvy" makes them cool.
Essentially, I am just curious as to why people wo do not post in a way that others term "inappropriate" are so concerned with defending the right to use terms like "ur." Obviously, people can type their posts in whatever manner they choose, but there is a general acceptance on this particular forum that proper spelling and grammer and signs of respect. It just seems that if you want your posts answered, you should post in the manner appropriate to the board.
However, it is just as easy to say that, if you do not like the way a question is written, you could simply choose not to answer it.
But what is appropriate to the board must be taken into account. For example:
\/\/h47 1f 1 d3c1d3d 70 \/\/r173 /\/\y p0575 3/\/71r31y 1/\/ 1337 5|D34|<? Y34h, 1d b3 7y|D1/\/g 1/\/ 4 14/\/gu4g3 7h47 15 qu173 |D0|Du14r + 4cc3|D74b13 1/\/ 73r/\/\5 0f 7h3 1n73r/\/37 w0r1d, bu7 \/3ry f3\/\/ 0f y0u \/\/0u1d b3 4b13 70 u/\/d3r574/\/d 17. 3v3/\/ 7h053 0f y0u 7h47 d1d und3r574/\/d 17 \/\/0u1d |Pr0b4b1y 7h1/\/|< 17 \/\/45 f001i5h + b3773r 13f7 3153\/\/h3r3.
That is; "What if I decided to write my posts entirely in leet (l337) speak? Yeah, I'd be typing in a language that is quite popular and acceptable in terms of the internet world, but very few of you would be able to understand it. Even those of you that did understand it would think it was foolish and better left elsewhere."
Leet speak is just not appropriate here, nor is typing like a 12 year old. We expect more here.
I think Joel and char are essentially pissed that this forum is, of late, going to absolute shit. It's the sheer laziness of the newbies, the refusal to do any research, the influx of meatheads, and other things, that is pissing off forum "veterans." They are right to point out that Bill, Cy, JMB, TC, and others were driven away.
Obviously it has little to do with terms such as "ur" but the usage of those terms is just a visible sign of the decreasing maturity level of this board.
Sorry for the ramble, just some thoughts.
Hey light dog was shakin bro? I haven’t heard from you in a while. I was beginning to think that you were no longer around to ridicule me about how I spell my screen name. Glad to see you are still in the game. I do think that people should make some what of an attempt to make their posts understandible and coherent.
Amen, John, Joel, and Char. Your words speak for at least 19 of us, if you catch my drift.
Agree with Eric: Way to go char, Joel, John and LightandFluffy.
Actually, I was complaining about the use of “dood” and all other intentional misspellings.