T Nation

Forks Over Knives

TRAILER

FULL MOVIE

thoughts?

complete POS movie… google “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives”

it’s long but you’ll be more the smarterer after reading the review

basically, the science is severly flawed and as most shit in nutritional science it is based off observational studies

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
complete POS movie… google “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives”

it’s long but you’ll be more the smarterer after reading the review

basically, the science is severly flawed and as most shit in nutritional science it is based off observational studies[/quote]

i kind of enjoyed the movie.

i googled “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives” and also found this.

a blog criticizing denise minger. it seems like there is never a concise conclusion when it comes to the topic of diet.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
complete POS movie… google “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives”

it’s long but you’ll be more the smarterer after reading the review

basically, the science is severly flawed and as most shit in nutritional science it is based off observational studies[/quote]

i kind of enjoyed the movie.

i googled “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives” and also found this.

a blog criticizing denise minger. it seems like there is never a concise conclusion when it comes to the topic of diet. [/quote]

Of course someone can criticize an individual, read Denise’s review of the movie and her review of the china study, she criticizes the data and the conclusions, not an individual.

but hey, we know SFA and cholesterol rich foods cause ill-health, all those randomized controlled studies… oh wait, or looking at hunter-gatherer societies living off that stuff and having western dise… oh wait… fuck people are stupid.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
complete POS movie… google “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives”

it’s long but you’ll be more the smarterer after reading the review

basically, the science is severly flawed and as most shit in nutritional science it is based off observational studies[/quote]

i kind of enjoyed the movie.

i googled “Denise Minger Forks Over Knives” and also found this.

a blog criticizing denise minger. it seems like there is never a concise conclusion when it comes to the topic of diet. [/quote]

Of course someone can criticize an individual, read Denise’s review of the movie and her review of the china study, she criticizes the data and the conclusions, not an individual.[/quote]

the link i posted isnt criticizing her directly, it is pointing out the flaws in the post she wrote, pointing out the flaws in forks over knives. graphs and all.

well my honest opinions on the movie:

  • most of the “meat, dairy, oil free” people have very skinny limbs, but it does look like they have a pot belly. you’d think being on the “healthiest diet” of all the diets would get you in pretty reasonable shape. not being racist but if you see a full body shot of the black M.D. from chicago he has a pretty significant gut, even in a suit.

  • they all have very sunken, sick, pale looking faces. cant be good. (comparing to mark from marks daily apple who eats paleo (meat) and looks like hes still 30 even though hes like 60).

  • none of the “gurus” share their bloodwork numbers.

  • you transition any person from a western “diet” to a portion controlled, whole food, non processed diet and im positive they will lose weight and improve their bloodwork.

  • whenever they said they came to the states and ate a “western diet” they would flash pictures of various fast food restaurants. nobody ever said “they came to the states and ate steak, rice and spinach every night and had a heart attack after 5 years!”

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
but hey, we know SFA and cholesterol rich foods cause ill-health, all those randomized controlled studies… oh wait, or looking at hunter-gatherer societies living off that stuff and having western dise… oh wait… fuck people are stupid.[/quote]

LOL.

i would like to see a debate of “fat head” vs “forks over knives”

the two complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

well, shit. who can you trust if the attractive vegan lady is wrong?

(read her blog, its good stuff)

[quote]caveman101 wrote:
well, shit. who can you trust if the attractive vegan lady is wrong?

(read her blog, its good stuff)[/quote]

are you referring to Denise, cause yes she’s a hottie, but no longer a vegan :wink:

evan centopani’s take on the matter:

"Interesting idea. I often wonder how healthy it is to be shoveling down so much protein. And truth be told, if I weren’t bodybuilding at this level, I don’t think I would consume nearly as much animal protein. And it’s not because I don’t think that humans should eat meat, because as omnivores I have no doubt that we are MEANT to have some meat in our diets.

Personally, I don’t feel great when I eat red meat. Over the past four or five years, the amount of red meat I consume has gone down each year just because I subconsciously shy away from it. I feel much better when I eat fish…for me the digestibility is much greater and I just feel better after eating it. I think the only consideration when talking about chicken or turkey or lamb or anything else really is what has the animal been eating and is it a diet that is natural to that animal.

If yes, then more than likely the nutritional profile of that protein should be good as opposed to one that is farm raised/fed a diet that is unnatural. Just like the nutritional profile of grass fed free range cattle being different from the conventional stuff. Unfortunately, to consume it in bodybuilder sized portions/frequency is not feasible for most people myself included.

I guess at the end of the day, it’s all about balance and competitive bodybuilding doesn’t exactly favor homeostasis. It’s tough. But still, there has to be some balance."

bill pearl on bodybuilding as a vegetarian:

Bill Pearl became a vegetarian at age 39 and said once in an interview, “I?m more healthy, I can train with more energy ? I have now been vegetarian for almost 20 years. We have no fish, fowl, or red meat in our diet. Yet I can still carry the same amount of muscle as I did in winning my four Mr. Universe titles. ? Take it from me, there?s nothing magic about eating meat that?s going to make you a champion bodybuilder. Anything you can find in a piece of meat, you can find in other foods as well.”

some more “food” for thought (no pun intended)

http://www.rootsacupuncture.org/2011/12/31/protein-perspectives-modern-nutrition-eastern-traditions/

and for the record, i am NOT going vegan, im just interested in other “meat heads” (no pun intended) thought on the matter of too much animal protein having negative health consequences, bodybuilding aside.

criticism of the china study

BUMP!

been “animal protein” free for 1 week now. lost about 8lbs. numbers in the gym are going up after a 6 week layoff.

just sayin’, you wont shrivel up and die on 50g of plant protein per day.

EDIT: i do plan on upping the protein to ~100g with a vegan protein powder

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
BUMP!

been “animal protein” free for 1 week now. lost about 8lbs. numbers in the gym are going up after a 6 week layoff.

just sayin’, you wont shrivel up and die on 50g of plant protein per day.

EDIT: i do plan on upping the protein to ~100g with a vegan protein powder[/quote]

oh please oh please make it hemp protein :wink:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
BUMP!

been “animal protein” free for 1 week now. lost about 8lbs. numbers in the gym are going up after a 6 week layoff.

just sayin’, you wont shrivel up and die on 50g of plant protein per day.

EDIT: i do plan on upping the protein to ~100g with a vegan protein powder[/quote]

oh please oh please make it hemp protein ;)[/quote]

lol i tried hemp years ago. it actually tasted like grass and vomit.

im looking at vega or sunwarrior protein. unless Biotest comes out with one hint hint

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
BUMP!

been “animal protein” free for 1 week now. lost about 8lbs. numbers in the gym are going up after a 6 week layoff.

just sayin’, you wont shrivel up and die on 50g of plant protein per day.

EDIT: i do plan on upping the protein to ~100g with a vegan protein powder[/quote]

Out of curiosity, did you compensate the reduction in calories from animal protein with other calorie sources? If not, the losing 8 lbs is from the reduction in calories more so than “no animal protein”.

Also, I know for sure if I took 6 weeks off and then went back, my numbers would be increasing as well, regardless of how I was eating. This would simply be because my numbers had dropped from where they were before the break and were climbing back up.

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
BUMP!

been “animal protein” free for 1 week now. lost about 8lbs. numbers in the gym are going up after a 6 week layoff.

just sayin’, you wont shrivel up and die on 50g of plant protein per day.

EDIT: i do plan on upping the protein to ~100g with a vegan protein powder[/quote]

Out of curiosity, did you compensate the reduction in calories from animal protein with other calorie sources? If not, the losing 8 lbs is from the reduction in calories more so than “no animal protein”.

Also, I know for sure if I took 6 weeks off and then went back, my numbers would be increasing as well, regardless of how I was eating. This would simply be because my numbers had dropped from where they were before the break and were climbing back up.

[/quote]

if anything im eating more food now than i was before. probably 400g of carbs a day. under 40g of fat and around 50-60g of protein. lots of rice, beans, lentils, nuts, etc. to compensate for missing calories from animal protein.

understood numbers would go up after a 6 week layoff. im saying they ARE going up even though there is a “lack of” animal protein to repair and rebuild muscle tissue after hard workouts.