T Nation

Force to Break a Hand

I guess this question could fall into this topic forum. After my workout the other day, i met someone at the gym who i saw working out with the captain of crush grippers. After a brief conversation i found out he was using the number three gripper fairly easily, and when i shook his hand to leave i felt as if he could have broke it. I have fairly average hands and can close the number 2 maybe 8 times.

my question is, what kind of force is required to literally crush another persons hand? if it is possible, then damn thats pretty badass

Both of your hands are made of the same material, so even if you could do this you’d probably break your own hand in the process.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
Both of your hands are made of the same material, so even if you could do this you’d probably break your own hand in the process.[/quote]

I really dont think thats true… at all. Lets pretend I can deadlift 800 pounds no straps. That means I can grip about 400 lbs. If I then wrap my hand around somebody elses and squeeze with the same amount of force, I’d break their hands.

If what you said was true, people with really strong grips would break their hands when they make a fist, and that definately doesnt happen.

[quote]Bootsie wrote:
I guess this question could fall into this topic forum. After my workout the other day, i met someone at the gym who i saw working out with the captain of crush grippers. After a brief conversation i found out he was using the number three gripper fairly easily, and when i shook his hand to leave i felt as if he could have broke it. I have fairly average hands and can close the number 2 maybe 8 times.

my question is, what kind of force is required to literally crush another persons hand? if it is possible, then damn thats pretty badass[/quote]

I thought using a no 3 CoC was like one of the hardest grip strength feats out there?

[quote]TJ wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Both of your hands are made of the same material, so even if you could do this you’d probably break your own hand in the process.

I really dont think thats true… at all. Lets pretend I can deadlift 800 pounds no straps. That means I can grip about 400 lbs. If I then wrap my hand around somebody elses and squeeze with the same amount of force, I’d break their hands.

If what you said was true, people with really strong grips would break their hands when they make a fist, and that definately doesnt happen.[/quote]

Your argument is ridiculous. You are not generating 800 lbs of force when you hold a bar. For one thing it is static force you are using, and for another a significant amount of friction is involved.

Secondly, when you make a fist, you are generating very little pressure on your hand, because your hand is not biomechanically built to crush itself. To understand what I mean, compare the crushing force you exert on a thick bar as opposed to that which you can exert on a pencil.

Finally, what I am saying is not that you could break your own hand gripping something; simply that if you COULD generate the force necessary to break someone else’s hand, you’d probably break your own.

To provide a simple example of this, take an object of one material and try to crush it with an object of the same material. (two rocks for example, or the graphite of a pencil, or whatever).

[quote]TJ wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Both of your hands are made of the same material, so even if you could do this you’d probably break your own hand in the process.

I really dont think thats true… at all. Lets pretend I can deadlift 800 pounds no straps. That means I can grip about 400 lbs. If I then wrap my hand around somebody elses and squeeze with the same amount of force, I’d break their hands.

If what you said was true, people with really strong grips would break their hands when they make a fist, and that definately doesnt happen.[/quote]

You’re right he’s wrong.

But, you’re wrong too relative to your example. The “supporting” grip strength needed to deadlift a heavy weight does not necessarily carry over to the type of “crushing” strength needed when attempting to clamp down on another mans hand.

And to the original poster: I have no idea, but I would guess that it can be done if someone has great “crushing” grip strength and the person that he is shaking hands has a smaller hand and is not able to defend the crushing grip.

Iron Mind has plenty of information on the three main grips strengths:
crushing, pinching and supporting.

Here is the page if anyone is interested:

www.ironmind.com/ironcms/export/IronMind/Main/crushedtodust1.html

By the way I love my Iron Mind grippers. And no, I can’t close the #3.

:wink:

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Bootsie wrote:
I guess this question could fall into this topic forum. After my workout the other day, i met someone at the gym who i saw working out with the captain of crush grippers. After a brief conversation i found out he was using the number three gripper fairly easily, and when i shook his hand to leave i felt as if he could have broke it. I have fairly average hands and can close the number 2 maybe 8 times.

my question is, what kind of force is required to literally crush another persons hand? if it is possible, then damn thats pretty badass

I thought using a no 3 CoC was like one of the hardest grip strength feats out there?[/quote]

the number 4 is probably what your thinking of, altho the list of people who can close the number 3, under regulation rules, is fairly elite as well

Don’t you think ligaments and tendons would strain/tear before actual bone splinters?

I know I can shake a strong guy’s hand and because I hadn’t “set up” properly, my hand gives a bit and hurts some. However, I then ask to re-do the handshake (don’t want him to think I’m a sissy), I seem to tense and sort of line up the bones of the hand to beter grip AND to better defend against the grip.

I’d like to think the hand would give enough and colapse enough to just wind up with strained ligaments before bones break.

[quote]derek wrote:
Don’t you think ligaments and tendons would strain/tear before actual bone splinters?

I know I can shake a strong guy’s hand and because I hadn’t “set up” properly, my hand gives a bit and hurts some. However, I then ask to re-do the handshake (don’t want him to think I’m a sissy), I seem to tense and sort of line up the bones of the hand to beter grip AND to better defend against the grip.

I’d like to think the hand would give enough and colapse enough to just wind up with strained ligaments before bones break.[/quote]

Re do? Who gives a re do? Re do’s are sissy. You get one shot and if you fuck it up then you are branded limpington. No exceptions.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
To provide a simple example of this, take an object of one material and try to crush it with an object of the same material. (two rocks for example, or the graphite of a pencil, or whatever).[/quote]

If you have sufficient grip strength and grab someone by the wrists, you can bend the radius and ulna in toward each other, fracturing them in some cases. It depends entirely upon the bone thickness and density of the other person relative to your own, as well as what you’ve trained your body to tolerate, and what standards you’ve forced it to perform to.

The amount of savagery our species is capable of inflicting on one another, all technological considerations aside, is still considerable. We’re much more adaptable and dangerous animals than we often give ourselves credit for.

[quote]Northcott wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
To provide a simple example of this, take an object of one material and try to crush it with an object of the same material. (two rocks for example, or the graphite of a pencil, or whatever).

If you have sufficient grip strength and grab someone by the wrists, you can bend the radius and ulna in toward each other, fracturing them in some cases. It depends entirely upon the bone thickness and density of the other person relative to your own, as well as what you’ve trained your body to tolerate, and what standards you’ve forced it to perform to.

The amount of savagery our species is capable of inflicting on one another, all technological considerations aside, is still considerable. We’re much more adaptable and dangerous animals than we often give ourselves credit for.
[/quote]

Ah, I thought we were talking about a normal handshake grip.

[quote]Northcott wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
To provide a simple example of this, take an object of one material and try to crush it with an object of the same material. (two rocks for example, or the graphite of a pencil, or whatever).

If you have sufficient grip strength and grab someone by the wrists, you can bend the radius and ulna in toward each other, fracturing them in some cases. It depends entirely upon the bone thickness and density of the other person relative to your own, as well as what you’ve trained your body to tolerate, and what standards you’ve forced it to perform to.

The amount of savagery our species is capable of inflicting on one another, all technological considerations aside, is still considerable. We’re much more adaptable and dangerous animals than we often give ourselves credit for.
[/quote]

i think ur talking about wrist locks and such. i agree with u there, but like capnsalty said, im more interested in just a simple handshake

[quote]derek wrote:
I know I can shake a strong guy’s hand and because I hadn’t “set up” properly, my hand gives a bit and hurts some. However, I then ask to re-do the handshake (don’t want him to think I’m a sissy), I seem to tense and sort of line up the bones of the hand to beter grip AND to better defend against the grip.

I’d like to think the hand would give enough and colapse enough to just wind up with strained ligaments before bones break.
[/quote]

Well, I can relate. I used to think that I had a fairly strong grip, as there were very few people who I’ve ever shaken hands with (big guys included) who’ve ever been able to really squeeze my hand hard.

However, that was until I shook hands with someone who truly has a world class grip. The first time I met Charlie Lysak, who is certified on the #3 and can close it 100 consecutive times (no that’s not a typo) it felt as though he could have simply kept going right through my hand, and honestly I don’t even think he was squeezing all that hard.

Now several years later I can close the #2, and it still feels like he could crush my hand if he wanted to. So, perhaps you just don’t have the perspective of having shaken hands with a person with a truly strong grip.

Your last comment very well may be true. I really couldn’t say which structural component would give first. But the hand would be “broken” in the sense of being able to use it.

Good training,

Sentoguy

Maybe if you squeezed along the metacarpals rather than along the knuckles, you could split the bone.

[quote]Bootsie wrote:
i think ur talking about wrist locks and such. i agree with u there, but like capnsalty said, im more interested in just a simple handshake[/quote]

No. No, no wrist locks or the such. That’s an entirely different subject. I’m talking about just wrapping your hand around someone’s wrist and squeezing. You don’t even have to be Herculean in strength to pull it off. You just have to be in a frame of mind where you’re not paying attention to the sensation in hand.

The radius and ulna would seem to be more sturdy than the bones of the hand. Now, they’re mounted differently and so more likely to break from external pressure, whereas the hand would just kind of collapse upon itself… but in the end, that’s a pretty moot difference. Either way, it’s effectively “broken”. And in quite a nasty fashion, I’d add. Might even be worse than a true break.

You could break the hand by applying that pressure and then torquing it, I suppose…

Wouldn’t we be talking about bone mineral density here?

Denser bones won’t break as easily. I guess I must be overlooking something here.

Yes, I belive that someone with incredible grip strenght could break the bones in an average persons hand in a handshake.

its possible. my dad said at his work they had a hand shaking contest for fun ot see who could shake whos hand the hardest. and one of the guys broke there bosses hand. he is pretty old and thats probly why it happened.

Is it just me or is this a pointless meathead type of issue?

If you go around trying to squeeze the shit out of peoples hands when you meet them, doing the handshake thing, you are a complete asshole.