T Nation

For the NFL Fans

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jeffri_chadiha/08/03/workouts/index.html

I think someone halfway beat you to it, but thanks for this - Im taking notes.

In Tiki Barber’s workout it says safety bar squat. That does not mean safety squat bar squats right?? It can’t be. It says the max weight he uses is 750. They are probably talking about a smith machine or something. And also in Walter Jones’s diet it says he skips breakfast. Doesn’t anyone tell him that is a boo boo?

[quote]TTewell342 wrote:
In Tiki Barber’s workout it says safety bar squat. That does not mean safety squat bar squats right?? It can’t be. It says the max weight he uses is 750. They are probably talking about a smith machine or something. And also in Walter Jones’s diet it says he skips breakfast. Doesn’t anyone tell him that is a boo boo?[/quote]

Actually, thats a common thing. Their sleep/workout scheduals place them in a perdicament. It gets hot outside, too damn hot in some places in the US. Best work in the Morning when its cool, work all day and night and actually sleep at 12 at night. Thats what happened to me last year on my MMA schedual.

Anyway, their nutritionists are given them the low-down, not us.

[quote]TTewell342 wrote:
In Tiki Barber’s workout it says safety bar squat. That does not mean safety squat bar squats right?? It can’t be. It says the max weight he uses is 750. They are probably talking about a smith machine or something.[/quote]

I think someone mentioned this in the other thread, but those aren’t ass-to-grass squats he’s doing; he squats down to a bench with the safety bar leaning on the rack (it does look like a safety bar and not a Smith machine, but it looks like he’s using the rack for support rather than stepping away from the rack and just holding onto the bar the way you often see the Westside guys do it).

Great post, this just gives me more ideas on what to do get better.

[quote]BigRedMachina wrote:
TTewell342 wrote:
In Tiki Barber’s workout it says safety bar squat. That does not mean safety squat bar squats right?? It can’t be. It says the max weight he uses is 750. They are probably talking about a smith machine or something.

I think someone mentioned this in the other thread, but those aren’t ass-to-grass squats he’s doing; he squats down to a bench with the safety bar leaning on the rack (it does look like a safety bar and not a Smith machine, but it looks like he’s using the rack for support rather than stepping away from the rack and just holding onto the bar the way you often see the Westside guys do it).
[/quote]

It doesn’t even look like he can get to the bench because the safety catches are located so high in the rack.

It is a hell of a lot of weight though.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Great post, this just gives me more ideas on what to do get better.[/quote]

Seriously, tommyboy, kudos to you. This is some great stuff.

[quote]BigRedMachina wrote:
I think someone mentioned this in the other thread, but those aren’t ass-to-grass squats he’s doing; he squats down to a bench with the safety bar leaning on the rack (it does look like a safety bar and not a Smith machine, but it looks like he’s using the rack for support rather than stepping away from the rack and just holding onto the bar the way you often see the Westside guys do it).
[/quote]

That seems like it would destroy the purpose of the exercise. You wouldn’t have the bar throwing you forward if it were leaning against a rack. A real 750 lb. SS Bar squat to parallel and raw would be the most impressive thing i have ever seen in my life. Unheard of.

this stuff is not as good an idea as you’d like to think. ex: running with sled is bad idea. but since they “seem” to be making progress, i’ll say no more cuz then i’d be a retard.

I thought that was really interesting. I always wonder what those guys do and it’s cool when you get to see a little of it. I’m pretty sure Donavan Darius should stay away from using any fighting techniques in his training though.

What passes for extreme these days is almost comical.

Car pushes? I was doing these in the hot Florida sun back in the late 80’s.

Martial arts drills? Randy White was doing this type of training in the 70’s…

The list goes on…

To answer a couple posts here:

Martial arts training is very applicable to certain aspects of football training. The explosiveness and contact are good to ‘condition’ the body for a long, impact-laden season. Now, this is condiditoning, not MMA full-contact stuff…

Martial Arts Training?

For WR, DB’s, and linemen, the hand drills are vital (WR’s and DB’s only if they hard press as opposed to soft fitting in M-V-M).

The condiditoning is vastly different, but as a GPP type phase early in training, I have seen far worse methods… but, as the cycle progresses, the training can be tailored much better for progress…

Sled Drags:

Sled drags when extremely heavy (Walking) are used to develop the muscular components that are necessary for a proper drive phase. If you look at the pic of Barber and Darius, you will notice that both could use some calf-iso work, as both have dropped heels. Unfortunately, if these drills are monitored by someone with little knowledge of true sprint mechanics, and the components that support a proper drive phase, you will see an athlete shifitng stressors to stronger muscles, and allowing the heel to dip very deep.

Barber should be making a concerted effort to isometrically lock his calf, and try to avoid such a deep angle. In this way, when the huge forces created by his hips are being transferred into the ground, the calf will have the strength to isometrically lock up and only the tendon component will recoil.

Unfortuantely this isn’t being addressed, or at least isn’t for the photo op…

Darius has two pictures where his arms cross center line during his drive phase, and in pulling the sled he is breaking the single most important rule when RUNNING and dragging a sled: don’t alter mechanics.

So, either he always crosse his center lie when he runs, or he is using way too much weight.

Scratch that. He is using way too much weight, and then we have to ask whether he crosses center line with his arms…

Also, he has a dropped heel.

But, at least the workouts are “kool” and “phun” and “phat”…

The thing that drives me nuts is thinking the kind of money being paid for this ‘training’.

Gunnar Peterson is raking it in…LOL.

It is very nice to see the pics of stunningly beautiful athletes, though.

Thanks for the link!!!

Jumanji,

Are you saying that when using a weighted sled, it’s ideal to run with the balls of your feet like you would without the weight? How would you suggest correcting this form issue in the aforementioned FB players? Are they using too much weight, are they not being properly supervised or is it a combination of both?

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
this stuff is not as good an idea as you’d like to think. ex: running with sled is bad idea. but since they “seem” to be making progress, i’ll say no more cuz then i’d be a retard.[/quote]

Why would you say running with a sled is a bad idea? I have developed great speed and leg drive for rugby by sprinting with added resistance.

They shouldn’t run on the balls of their fett or with a dipped heel, but rather between.

Running with a heavy sled destroys mechanics and alters the firing patterns associated with acceleration.

The sled is awesome, and the muscles are pretty, but that is a 10 year old girl’s form… red rover, red rover!!!

Meanest damn 10-year old I ever saw, but the form is tough from a sporint standpoint.

You also have to understand that I am looking at it from a sprint coaches viewpoint also. Arms are across center line, back arm is therefore well beyond hip and away from body, face neck and shoulders are up from trying to muscle the weight (and pose for the cam), triple extension has a sunk heel due to excess weight…

When running, you move very quickly from being muscle dominant to being elastic dominant. The best at accelerating are the poeple who have both.

It is possible to build speed using a sled (heck, I use on all the time for drive phase work). The problem of using too much weight is the issue. If too much weight is used, you see scenes like in the pictures: Poor mechanics, ground contact time is lengthened greatley, the heel drops into a point od deep flexion, and the athlete moves from propulsing himself forward to muscling himself forward.

The muscling part is the ugly part after the initial few steps.

The standard recommendation for sled pulls is 10% or so of your bodyweight for no more than 30 yards (drive phase of top athletes).

Now, this figure obviously has nothing to do with ground friction coefficient, etc, so it really takes an experienced coach watching you run to make the call…

Now, the use of sleds for heavy drags is an excellent practice. This practice lays the groundwork of strength for muscles which truly produce power when accelerating (hips, glutes, quads). These are usually done with a heavy forward lean and either a harness, or holding the straps behind the back. The heavy forward lean is very similar to the body angle created when in drive phase and strong… obviously the more force an athlete can create, the more lean they can create… more force allows the COG to move further in front of the athlete’s support and not fall on his face…

Joe D does a very good job with athletes just bringing up their strength qualities to very high levels. His programs center around MaxS, MaxP, and RFD. He sees huge improvement, and this is especially true because most athletes are so far from their Limit Strength potential…

So JoeD sees gains by drastically increasing an athlete’s Realative Strength.

The isometric calf issue always produces the same question: should I run on my toes?

Well, the pictures show a deep flexion of the ankle… maybe 45 degrees. Running on your toes is 135 degrees plus… is there a middle gound?

Running on your toes is not a strong enough position to isometrically lock up your calves when running. try to accelerate on your toes and see what happens.

But, training your ankle to lock after a pulled back toe strikes the ground (note I am not super worried about full dorsiflexion here) is of utmost importance.

Think about it this way: if you cannot hold your ankle locked when driving 600 lbs of force from yuor hips back into a sled, hwo will you lock it isometrically when you really run? The forces are far greater and are nearly instantaneous…

If your plantar flexors are weak, your hips automatically shut down maximal power production…inhibition.

Run on toes? Nope. Allow ankle to deep very deeply? Nope.

Happy Medium.

Hope this helps guys.

J

Panther~ I agree, sleds can produce great leg drive, and starting strength. I love to use the along with hills to prepare the athlete for full speed accels, or as a contrast…

[q]Jones uses a goalpost in his backyard to help him enhance his stance.[/q]

A goalpost in his backyard .

Does anyone know if a field comes with that or are the stadium bleachers sold seperate?

[quote]RIT Jared wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
this stuff is not as good an idea as you’d like to think. ex: running with sled is bad idea. but since they “seem” to be making progress, i’ll say no more cuz then i’d be a retard.

Why would you say running with a sled is a bad idea? I have developed great speed and leg drive for rugby by sprinting with added resistance.[/quote]

J summed it up better than i could. a point i would like to make, though, is that these “new” methods of training are not responsible for any results; they are responsible for being the medium by which the athletes train with more joy and focus, more intensiveness, better intensity/volume/frequency ratios, etc. because of the newness of these exercises many athletes and coaches seem to disregard their much-less-than-optimal prejudices around training, IMO.

the real point is that exercise selection is about (cue arbitrary #–>) 2% of the training battle; the rest is planning and periodization of chosen exercises’ intensity/volume/frequency/intensiveness.

J,

from a sprint coach perspecitive, do you think running with a sled can be beneficial if properly loaded? AFAIK, running with sled no matter what the load can alter sprint mechanics simply because the sled itself causes an inherent alteration of resistance.

i would put running with a sled in the same category as overspeed sprints, parachute sprints, downhill sprints, uphill sprints with enough incline to decrease max speed by more than 10%, vested sprints with enough load to decrease max speed by more than 10%, etc. AFAIK, these all will alter pure sprint mechanics unfavorably.

On page 34 of this weeks SI they are discussing how to beat the heat in training camp.

Regarding the Jaguars it says:

“Trainers also monitor body temperatures through a pill the player swallows. The pill transmits a signal-the higher the frequency, the higher the temperature-picked up by handheld devices…”

Is this a joke they are playing on the reporter?

Zap, it’s true. I read about it in a Columbus paper a couple days ago. It seems that it has been in use for a couple years, and it is really starting to catch on with NFL teams.