T Nation

For or Against


Since one cannot prove or disprove Gods existence through science are there better reasons to believe he exists or doesn't exist?


The only reasons I can think of revolves around a sort of intrinsic beauty of life. You know that thing that you just can't put your finger on.

You know when the good times are great and things just can't get any better you start to believe that life is not just a random thing. Thats pretty vague, but I think many people have felt that way.


Take what works for you. That probably sums it up best. Some people need it. Others don't. Just don't crusading on it. Simple.


Says who?


Einstein had the same feeling. Hence the equation

Energy = feeling that you get when traveling at high speeds and can't quite put your finger on.

There, that took care of it, Didnt it Mr Alb.

Oh you mean it was E=MC2. My bad.


God is something very convenient to have around, like the devil is. Apart from that need to somehow explain that that we can not understand or explain, having someone to blame for things that go wrong and for things we do wrong is a conforting thought.

I do believe in God, but my god is very deiferent from the almighty, omniscient creature the catholic and other churches came up with.

And Diesel, are you asking who says you can't prove the existence of God? CAn you or anyone lese prove it in a scientific context?


Cant prove it through science but the fact that we are all here is enough for me.


My thoughts on Restless's comment

"You shall not make for yourself any idol."

Who is God to you? Is he only a god of love and mercy who would never judge anyone and never cast anyone into Hell? If that's your god, then you're right. Your god couldn't cast anyone into Hell because he doesn't exist. He's a figment of your imagination. You've created a god in your own mind that you're more comfortable with. You may call it your "personal belief," but God calls it idolatry. It's the oldest sin in the Book, and the Bible warns that idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Then again, I'm probably correct to assume that you also don't believe in the Bible, correct?

Just wanted to add some thoughts.


Thunder that was awesome.

I believe in God because of what he has done in my life, my personal experience with him dictates his very real existence in my life. I would ask you to take your question to him and see what he says.


Not again....


Thunder, that's ridiculous. No two people on earth have the same exact view of who God is. There is always interpretation involved even if the bible is taken at face value (literal interpretation).


Math certainly falls under the category of science; and I have seen some figures that would show the odds of everything developing in our universe..including our minds and morals...anyway..its a ridiculous number in terms of it being random chance. Can't recall the numbers off the top of my head..but I can look them up. Suffice it to say you would have to have MORE FAITH to believe the insanely high chance of it all being random chance or coincidence than to believe in an almighty God.



If you "believe" in anything for which you have absolutely no good evidence whatsoever, you are an irrational person; and frankly I'd bring the rest of your opinions into question. Sorry, that's the way it is.

I would be no less idiotic to believe that an invisible elf lives in my closet.


Humm...God does call idolatry a Sin...and yet he imposes on every Christian to worship only him, and he has no 'competition' except the Bad Guys...

Do as I say, not as I do, eh?

The Devil's Advocate view was more coherent in his view of God and far better described his view of it too, IMHO...


I don't worry about it. If it's important enough to God that I know he exists he can make himself known, after all he's omnipotent so it's easier for him than me. I've looked around and didn't see anything that even hinted of his existance yet.


Math is the language of god. Math is humanity's best attempt to understand and communicate what god really is. (Perhaps it is a vain attempt.) You have to be able to think to use math and understand the nature of god.

The bible, on the other hand, is a tool of masters to wield power over weak-minded slaves. You must NOT think to follow the bible, therefore you are ripe for being enslaved. That's really a shame, because no matter what type of god you believe in, you exist and have a mind because of god. It's an abomination to surrender your god-given mind and will to anyone.

Just wanted to stir the flames a little.


YORIK: I agree with you on the most part, except I take God out of the equation. It`s all too human to try to project things we like and see things that are not there, a la millionth monkey syndrome...


Thunder are you kidding me? A God who does not judge??? I think you should reread the Old Testament. The God of the Jews was nothing more than a stolen Canaanite god. But I am not saying that a god doesn't exist, just that by definition humans can never know that god.


Oh boy, I try not to get involved in off topic discussions because of limited time but I love good debates especially when there is someone like DAN C on the other end of the table! How goes it Dan?

I'll start with Hooge2000:

You should read the Old Testament as well Hooge2000 :slight_smile: Your satement was wildly inaccurate but I can see where the mistake might have come from. Jewish history/worship/culture (worship of the true God) began centuries before that of Canaanites. Also remember that typical Canaanite culture involved many Gods, such as Baal, etc. based around cast idols and involving human sacrifice, etc. I beleive your confusion may stem from the fact that after the Jews settled throughout Canaanite lands many dissidant Jews allowed themselves to be influenced by the inhabitants religious beleifs, turning to worship of Baal etc.

An example would be a Christian who turned to Buddhism, Christian faith is still based on Jesus, it's just that a few chose to shift to Buddhism...



I really like the mathmatical statement, really creative thought, and could expound on that but first I want to address your statement after that which I beleive is a result of very little understanding/exposure to the Bible, however, understand that I'm really not tryin to "convert" you or beat my beleifs into you (I'm sure you've gotten enough of that from typical beleivers that I'll admit can get annoying), just answering your statement with a thought...

The Bible (understood to be from God) is not at all meant for control, enslavement, or giving up free will, and if you knew the Bible you would understand that it it the SINGLE best example/religion to support your statement:

"That's really a shame, because no matter what type of god you believe in, you exist and have a mind because of god."

The Bible speaks often about the meaning and importance of freedom of choice, will, etc.

You're ideas of enslavement, etc. are likely based on human "ill-conception" of the Bible and whether it was a case for the Crusades or a Husband abusing 1 Corinthians 7:4 to force his wife to have sex with him, you are correct that the Bible CAN BE ABUSED by individuals for enslavement, surrender of will, etc.


Can't the same be said about all other religions and ideas? Islam? Communism? Individuals right to defend themselves?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the above, although I have a sneaking suspicion that your were more attempting just to stir up a long respons from someone :stuck_out_tongue: