For F*cks Sakes, Let's End These Wars Now!

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]pushharder wrote:
War has been around since human civilization began. It has always been ugly, inhumane and despicable.

The USA is part of human civilization. It has waged war throughout its past and it will continue to do so. However, in the annals of history no country, and I mean no fucking country in history bar none, has done more when it comes to waging war “with a conscience” and to avoid as much senseless depraved killing as possible.

If anyone wishes to dispute this please come armed with examples of countries who have waged wars humanely. Or more humanely.[/quote]

It is not about waging a more humane war! Are you kidding me?

Some people can be violent but most are not.

Sending an entire military off to some foreign country because of the acts of a few people does not solve problems. It creates new ones.

Unintended consequences, ya know?

22

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The war on terror is a failure.

The world cannot be rid of violence with more violence.[/quote]

hug’em into submission, ya big lug![/quote]

I am not suggesting ignoring the threat of violence but rather react differently to it.

Don’t interact with known violent people and let them fend for themselves in the wilderness.

Known outlaws should be given no safe haven.[/quote]

Or weapons.

Or money.

Or military advisors, satellite data, viruses and bacteria for their weapons programs, intelligence data…[/quote]

Seriously, right?!

23

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Most people already voted for the guy who was supposed to just end the wars and walk away until like reality dictated he couldn’t do that. [/quote]

I think I got lost somewhere in the sarcasm. [/quote]

Yeah, that was the only statement I made that wasn’t sarcastic…

25

[quote]pushharder wrote:

There will always, always, always be bad guys out there. There may never be what you envision to be the ultimate good guy but the bad guys are with us indefinitely.

[/quote]

I agree with the most of what you said, but this begs the question - are there also some bad guys ‘in here’, like US government or military? If they are, don’t you think it’s possible, even remotely, that they would start a war that is unnecessary and commit war crimes?

26

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Most people already voted for the guy who was supposed to just end the wars and walk away until like reality dictated he couldn’t do that. [/quote]

I think I got lost somewhere in the sarcasm. [/quote]

Yeah, that was the only statement I made that wasn’t sarcastic…[/quote]

Yeah, it is pretty amazing how many people, on all sides, who ignored that little “and move into Afghanistan” part.

28

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]MaliMedved wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

There will always, always, always be bad guys out there. There may never be what you envision to be the ultimate good guy but the bad guys are with us indefinitely.

[/quote]

I agree with the most of what you said, but this begs the question - are there also some bad guys ‘in here’, like US government or military? If they are, don’t you think it’s possible, even remotely, that they would start a war that is unnecessary and commit war crimes?[/quote]

I think it’s “possible” but unlikely at least on a massive scale. The reason I say “unlikely” is (according to theory cough) we are a constitutional republic that is governed by two legislative bodies and administered by an executive and overseen by a judiciary. The inherent checks and balances, I think, make for difficult circumstances for massively unnecessary wars and war crimes (read this in context and do not jump to the ridiculous conclusion that I think the US can do no wrong).

Now the debate could/should shift to what is a “necessary” war. You could take any war in US history and dissect it down to a gnat’s ass and come up with all kinds of “what if” scenarios that would have the US not get involved. Including WWII.[/quote]

Most countries, both modern and past, have/had a lot of checks and balances and still governments did bad things. No system is full-proof.
I mean, most of right-leaning people strongly believe that US government does not work in their best interest. If they can be ignorant, incompetent, or malevolent domestically, what’s stopping them to do the same in foreign policy, including wars?

Ditto on necessary wars, though. It’s a tough question.

30

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
War has been around since human civilization began. It has always been ugly, inhumane and despicable.

The USA is part of human civilization. It has waged war throughout its past and it will continue to do so. However, in the annals of history no country, and I mean no fucking country in history bar none, has done more when it comes to waging war “with a conscience” and to avoid as much senseless depraved killing as possible.

If anyone wishes to dispute this please come armed with examples of countries who have waged wars humanely. Or more humanely.[/quote]

It is not about waging a more humane war! Are you kidding me?

Some people can be violent but most are not.

Sending an entire military off to some foreign country because of the acts of a few people does not solve problems. It creates new ones.

Unintended consequences, ya know?
[/quote]

I didn’t say it was about waging a more humane war. I’m saying Utopia, your Utopia for that matter, has never existed. Never. Not once.

Nothing wrong with being idealistic but in light of the above it is naive to think wars will just end if we have the “will.” They’re not ending. Period.

There will always, always, always be bad guys out there. There may never be what you envision to be the ultimate good guy but the bad guys are with us indefinitely.

So what the OP SHOULD primarily be whining about are those who go out of their fucking way to wage inhumane wars instead of crying rivers of tears about how the USA iz so turribel.[/quote]

You keep making the same strawman arguments about what I am arguing for.

It’s not about what isbut about what should be and how to best bring it about.

No proponent of a voluntary, market-driven society expects every person to behave themselves. We only suggest how to help remove the incentive for immoral behavior and how to better deal with aggression without a monopolist institution calling itself “the government”.

32

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

You keep making the same strawman arguments about what I am arguing for.

[/quote]

That does it. I’m startin’ me a “no more strawman” thread. Hang on, you’ll see it pop up shortly.[/quote]

After all, if I am arguing for a “Utopia” then you have to be arguing for your own version of Utopia, right?

34

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Warning: Very Graphic Video

I’m sick of seeing videos like this where innocent people killed or maimed by our wars…

[/quote]

“Our wars?” As opposed to other folks’ wars? Where’s the outrage towards “them” and “their wars”?
[/quote]

Our wars (places we are actively fighting and bombing):
Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan
[/quote]

Did Iraq not do any fighting or bombing that precipitated the US fighting and bombing?

Did Afghanistan (Taliban/al Aqaeda) not do any fighting or bombing that precipitated the US fighting and bombing?

Did Libya not do any fighting or bombing that precipitated the US fighting and bombing?

Did Yemen (the terrorists in it) not do any fighting or bombing that precipitated the US fighting and bombing?

Did Pakistan (the terrorists in it) not do any fighting or bombing that precipitated the US fighting and bombing?

Where’s your outrage about all of the above? Where?

I’m not excusing, say the bombing of Libya which I did not support, but WHERE is your outrage at Qaddafi?

WHERE was your outrage at Saddam Hussein? Did you have SOME? Maybe even a little? How 'bout a whole lot?

You need to work harder at being an EOO (equal opportunity outragee).[/quote]

Are you really THAT big of an idiot?[/quote]

Oh no, he’s a much bigger idiot than that. Keep reading.

36

[quote]pushharder wrote:
BIA,

Any outrage on your part over this? http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/the_arab_spring_becoming_the_islamic_spring?pageNo=0

I bet not.[/quote]

Outrage over the violence used: Definitely
Outrage over religious issues: None

37

[quote]pushharder wrote:
…we are a constitutional republic that is governed by two legislative bodies and administered by an executive and overseen by a judiciary. The inherent checks and balances…[/quote]

Although the ‘checks and balances’ still exist in theroy; in practice they are non-existent.

38

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Warning: Very Graphic Video

I’m sick of seeing videos like this where innocent people killed or maimed by our wars. I’m absolutely sick that my tax dollars are going towards funding murdering people in other countries. People I have never met and have done nothing against me or my family.

The only politician I’ve heard who is against these wars is Ron Paul. Where the f*ck are all the other politicians!!! Considering the republicans are so pro-life, how can they be so pro-death regarding children in other countries? Where are the democrats calling for this to end? We have protests in wall street over money and jobs, where are the protests over life and peace?

My next vote will be for whoever will stop these endless wars, but I have no idea who that will even be. All these asshole politicians are in bed with the war industry of this country.

Please help.[/quote]
Ron Paul is the only conservative in the game

39

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

You keep making the same strawman arguments about what I am arguing for.

[/quote]

That does it. I’m startin’ me a “no more strawman” thread. Hang on, you’ll see it pop up shortly.[/quote]

You need to start a thread for all the preteen boys that share your pubescent humor