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for christian thib. -schroeder and hypertrophy

Christian - How does Jay develop hypertrophy in his athletes? In seeing some of his sample workouts they seem to be very neurologically taxing, however I don’t know how he would develop muscle size in an athlete.
The structural adapatation of isometrics and isometrics at extreme joint angle is not largely hypertrophy, correct? Also, eccentric exercises such as altitude drops and altitude bench drops would not develop much hypertrophy, right?
One more thing, could you elaborate no his use of e.d.i. that is the use of static followed by dynamic exercises. I have read a little about this in supertraining, but want to know more. Thanks.

can i get some help here?

bump

I’ll bump this.

Perhaps you’ll find this helpful -

im not sure christian is around anymore, his forum closed down for some reason (no explanation i could find)

as far as info on Jays methods, check out elitefts.com (the sports specific section of the Q&A) and charliefrancis.com (forum) youll find a load of info there.

hope that helps

When overloading the CNS, you can expect some hypertrophy of the high threshold Type IIB fibers. It’s a specific training adaptation that a strength coach looks to achieve with athletes who are concerned with explosive power and speed.

The idea that’s been talked about on the forum and in some Q&A articles with Poliquin is that if you only make the muscle fibers that are responsible for high output bigger, they will increase in force output due to the increase in cross sectional are and the increase in neural co-ordination.

Bare in mind that these athletes may not need much hypertrophy training specifically. These are the guys that would make the dedicated gym rat look feeble if they only ran on the beach and did push-ups.

With Adam Archuleta, it seems that a lot of his bulk that he carries is from playing and practicing, just as much as training. Charlie Francis always asks is it the weight training that makes the sprinter faster or the sprinting that makes the sprinter more successful in the weight room?

A lot of times, when you see an athlete with an appreciable amount of muscle, you need to consider that ‘chicken or the egg’ scenario.

Typically, a trainee would follow the 40-70 seconds, 8-12 rep range prescription if he wanted to gain muscle size. Issue with that being that the weight gained (even if it all muscle) won’t funtionally contribute to an increase in performance. Seeing as Schreoder is looking for that functinal increase, he’ll rarely do typical hypertrophy work, except for early off-season conditioning.

That 8-12 rep range will cause hypertrophy in the fibers that contribute very little to speed and power. The extra weight gained would only slow an athlete down. It’s like filling your trunk with cement, without increasing horse power. Schroeder is concerned with increasing horsepower while minimizing the ‘cement’.

All that said, I don’t have as much of a knowledge base about Schroeder’s training techniques as some might. I’m merely applying the real world knowledge I’ve earned through training clients and myself along with the reading as often as possible.

When it comes to Q’s like these, your Phys text probably won’t have the answer. Welcome to the world outside of school. Try and think more ‘outside the box’ and these methodologies will begin to make more sense. I wasin the same spot when I was finsihing school. Keep reading. It gets easier.

Re: Static vs Dynamic:
Read Don Alessi’s ‘Reactive Strength’ article on T-Mag.

Last but not least:

Isometrics cause more of a Neuroligical (strength) adaptation.

Eccentric training causes Hypertrophy. That’s weight training Dogma.

Davidian - Thibaudeau explained it himself in another thread:

"Just to make everything clear, I simply do not have time to take care of my forum properly anymore. As a proof I have more than 40 messages on queue in my moderator page! The problem is that on top of my job as a strength coach and my own training I also coach TWO football teams!!! Which takes me over 30 hours per week.

So there is just no way that I can keep this up and maintain my sanity!!!

However I’ll still write tons of articles. In fact I sent 4 new ones to TC this week alone!!!

I’ll also have a Q&A column. So you’ll still be able to ask me questions. I’ll also appear on the guest forum from time to time and will try to post on the regular forums if times permits.

I’ll be forever grateful to the whole T-mag stuff for having me onboard and I’ll stay a part of the team for as long as they want me here."

Schroeder uses lots of isometrics.

CT said that since he began incorporating Iso’s he has gained tons of mass.

It’s becoming more and more accepted that Neurological loading is the best way to gain muscle mass. Especially when considering performance in your chosed sport.

Doesn’t surprise me that CT has seen results from Isometrics. It’s an excellent means for creating muscular tension.

Jay uses extreme isometrics in which the goal is to hold a certain position for 5 minutes total (you can take some breaks, but try to take as little as possible to complete the 5 minutes). Believe me, this builds lots of muscle size!

I use 'em and also use them in conjunction with dynamic training in a superset.

Jay also uses a form of EDT in which the athlete must perform as many sets as he can within a certain time frame (30-45 minutes). The percentages used are 76-92% and the sets are kept to 1-3 reps/set, you never go anywhere near failure. With this type of training it is possible to do a tremendous amount of work without overexerting your muscles (I’ve done as much as 30 sets of 3 in 45 minutes).

This is what I would call a “workman” training approach as it simulate how manual laborer work (tons of volume, but never exerting themselves). This allows you to do a lot of volume, often, without risking overtraining.

Finally, Jay uses a lot of accentuated training, especially slow negatives (10 seconds eccentric followed by explosive concentric) and isomiometric training (pausing during the eccentric portion of a lift).

These techniques are not specifically aimed at increasing muscle mass, but it does so nonetheless.

Thanks. Lot of the information presented make sense. How about isometrics effect on metabolism? Most of the isometrics performed don’t have an eccentric portion and consequently don’t have eccentric stress. I guess what i am getting at is how demanding are static/dynamic exercises on the metabolism.
It was discussed that activity not dont at maximum effort or maximum velocity may be detrimental to the development of type IIB muscle fiber. I am missing sprinting sessions, jump romping, and other gpp sessions that I am used to. How might say jump roping effect my ability or inability to adapt. Thanks.

This is good stuff. Kind of goes angainst the grain of low reps for strength and higher reps for size.

So if one wants to get bigger, but not without the sacrifices of decreased power and speed one should never train above say 5-6 reps?

Lets set up some rules/guidlines here…

again good stuff.

Greekdawg… good thoughts and questions, although keep in mind that speed of movement can be inhibited in any rep range if compensatory acceleration and/or specific power (20 to 60%1RM) exercises are not used. However, if those considerations are met, I couldn’t really see a reason why athletes would use higher rep ranges, even if their goal is to develop hypertrophy…

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