T Nation

For Bill Roberts: 4-AD-EC works

Bill, I just got my blood test back. My T-levels are 341 ng/dl.

I got tested about 6 months ago when I was taking 4-AD-EC. My T levels were 692.

I had only taken it for about 3 days (one dose a day) and I can’t remember if I frontloaded (two doses the first day).


Just wanted to let you know.

Bump for Bill now that he is back.

Well, thanks! :slight_smile:

Actually though this isn’t how 4-AD-EC is supposed to work, though it’s an expected side effect. The source of the gains should be increased levels of 4-AD itself.

Bill, I know that the 4AD by itself is almost as potent as test. I didn’t really take the blood test to evaluate 4-AD-EC. I took it to determine my T levels but I had been on 4-AD-EC the first time so I took it again while free of exogenous androgens.

I was kinda dissapointed with the results but it does show the 4-AD-EC’s effects. Just thought I’d let you know.

Bill, a couple of questions regrding our favorite hormone, unrealted to 4AD if you don’t mind:

  1. How many percent does endogenous testosterone vary intra-day between its higest (morning) and lowest points (evening)?

  2. How much gains can a person get with say 400 ng/dl compared to 800 ng/dl? Basically, what I’m trying to ask is how much does a few hundred ng/dl testosterone effect ones gains. I take it that since 800 is double 400, it does not mean twice as much gains?

  3. Is free T all that matters? Say if everyting else being equal,

Alex has 800 ng/dl total T but only 100 pg/ml free T and

John has 400 ng/dl total T but 200 pg/ml free T

Would John have much better gains?

Just trying to undertand T a little better. I know every individual is different but a general idea would be cool. Thanks.

I’m afraid I’d have to go find what data’s been published; I don’t have a number for how great the variation is. My original impression from viewing one reported graph on it was that the difference was something like 30% or perhaps a little more.

In most cases I don’t think there’s a great difference in bodybuilding results between say 400 ng/dL and 800 ng/dL – which also fits in with the observation that low amounts of injected testosterone do very little. Over time though it surely ought to be worth a few pounds.

While I know you’ll see disagreeing statements elsewhere, for very fundamental reasons free testosterone is the full, complete, and sufficient measure for the biological activity of the hormone. Receptor binding (or binding to anything else) is described completely by the free concentration and the binding coefficient.

John, with the higher free testosterone, will see more activity from the testosterone.

Thanks Bill. Your insights are much appreciated.