Fooling the Nervous System?

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Realy though, What are the worlds top triple jumpers currently doing?

Wouldn’t it make sense to do what they do if you want the results they get?

This is usually the argument I use when discussing training “fads” with people (Air Alert, Jumpsoles, etc.), but sometimes it’s not always true. If you think about he’s NOT a world-class triple jumper, so his training SHOULD be a LITTLE different. Plus I feel like a world-class triple jumper might be too afraid to try something like this. Sometimes at that level it’s more about not screwing things up and letting the freaky athletes just be themselves.[/quote]

I’m not talking about wearing the same shoes, I’m talking about applying the same principals of developement and maintenance of performance. Also- “at that level” it becomes about injury recovery and prevention, training, and performance. Chalking it up to freaky genetics or supernatural ability doesn’t shed much light on their training.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Realy though, What are the worlds top triple jumpers currently doing?

Wouldn’t it make sense to do what they do if you want the results they get?

This is usually the argument I use when discussing training “fads” with people (Air Alert, Jumpsoles, etc.), but sometimes it’s not always true. If you think about he’s NOT a world-class triple jumper, so his training SHOULD be a LITTLE different. Plus I feel like a world-class triple jumper might be too afraid to try something like this. Sometimes at that level it’s more about not screwing things up and letting the freaky athletes just be themselves.

I’m not talking about wearing the same shoes, I’m talking about applying the same principals of developement and maintenance of performance. Also- “at that level” it becomes about injury recovery and prevention, training, and performance. Chalking it up to freaky genetics or supernatural ability doesn’t shed much light on their training.
[/quote]

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here. I’m not trying to say that it’s all genetics and no training. But you can’t tell me that a high-school level track athlete should train the EXACT same as an olympic-level athlete.

Same principles, sure, same methods, not always.

Usually increasing verts will come about with an improvement in speed.

Reason is several fold. I can speak from personal experience though there are others on this bbs who have taken IT further than I have (kelly bagget).

its pretty logical, alot of the improvement in the vertical comes from:

  1. Improvement in the coordination of the movement. ( Nervous system ).
  2. Improved coordination (timing) in loading up the nervous system and firing.
  3. Improved power in the muscles themself, through muscle type conversion and improvement in strength in the already existing proper fibre types.

Alof of sports science is still settling and has ways to go, IE. I think most of the improvmenet in sprint speed and vertical leap and muscle strength from 1940’s to today comes about via improved knowledge, training and more examples of success to look at - not evolution per say.

I also personally think that both WEIGHTED movements, such as vest, baseball with weight, punching with heavier hands, parachute work, works!

As well as speed assisted movements such as down hill running, running behind a car, some jump assisted movements.

How about this one. It seems to be a common theory that muscle fibres can “Split”. Muscle fibre splitting of relative fibres and then getting all the water and non-useful mass out.

Or where you talking about loading up the nervous system more than is possible without any outside stiumulous.

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
GhostOfYourMind wrote:
Mike T. wrote:
GhostOfYourMind wrote:
I’d advise against ankle weights on or close to joints like the wrists and ankles. I’m guessing that over time, that extra poundage concentrated in that one area will have some bad affects on the connective tissues and the joint itself. It may improve your performance, but in reality, that performance increase probably only lasts so long. It’s the same concept as punching with weights.

It doesn’t help your punching speed or power in the long run. Maybe at first you’ll feel quicker, but after a few minutes, that effect will wear off.

Anyways, I think your idea will only work if you keep doing it for a VERY long time and really never stop, or if your body adapts by hypertrophying in some way. Neural adaptations, I’m guessing, will “fade” faster in that the body will realize that once you’re not wearing that weight vest after 1 or 2 weeks, and don’t go back to it for maybe a month, it’ll decondition, thinking it no longer has to pony up to handle the extra load.

I dunno though, I could be wrong. Try it and see what happens, just remember you’ll have X amount more weight to deal with, so if you decide to go running or jumping or back flipping like a ninja, take it more on the easy side first.:slight_smile:

i could see your theory on the joints and all but when you said " It doesn’t help your punching speed or power in the long run. Maybe at first you’ll feel quicker, but after a few minutes, that effect will wear off." i disagree because your using weights so your muscle gets stronger and i take it like lifting weights almost because you make the muscles that help you run or do something else stronger. Just my take on that.

Well, weight lifting and sport specific techniques are two different things. Punching with free weights can mess your technique up. Free weights travel down. The purpose of a punch is to generally go forward. Your body will need to compensate for that downward force when you punch with a weight. It probably wreaks havok on your shoulders as well in the long term. The fact that you have to accelerate, and then decelerate the weight very fast, while it’s pulling your arm down, can’t be a good thing. Now, I can agree with doing a ballistic type of movement (like throwing a medicine ball; I think Ross Enamait wrote a book with that in there some where?). However, then it’s more of a ballistic push, not really a punch technically speaking.

My point is… Working the muscles by intensifying the technique they perform can hinder performance by throwing off motor patterns, and also can increase risk of injury. If you want to get better and stronger at punching, lift weights to get bigger and stronger, but also work on your punching technique. Sometimes it’s not a question of how strong you are, but how you can use that strength better than the other guy.

That’s how I see it. Plus I’ve always been taught to not weigh down a technique. Interesting point of view though. That’s why I love T-Nation.

Very nice reply, i like your point of view on that, not to drag it on though, but what about if you dont use free weights for the punching, i seen this boxers website and he had exercises, like power clean with a sandbag, had grips on it, regular exercise, but then he had one that he stood a barbell straight up with weights on the end and the bottome against a corner at the bottom and broght it towards his body and pushed it away, just like a punching motion with added weight, what is your opinion on that?[/quote]

Still sounds like a ballistic move to me, because from how you descrbied it, it seems as if he’s letting the weight go? Maybe I got the image wrong. Sounds dangerous if he missed the catch though… “How’d you get a black eye bro?” “My bar hit me in the face…” “HAHAHA!” Hehe…

(sorry for the late reply, forgot about this thread, and every other thread I posted on for that matter…)