T Nation

Foods With Anti-E & Test Boosting Effects

Lets compile a list of foods that have anti-estrogen effects and testosterone supporting/increasing effects.

What’s the word on whole ground flax seeds. I hear mixed reviews on them, but CP recommends them for anti-estrogen?

My theory has it that grass fed meat is awesome for testosterone, but hormone injected meats will kill testosterone. I used to eat pounds and pounds of grass fed beef and buffalo a day, but due to funds I had to switch to cheap chicken/turkey/beef. The difference in testosterone was night and day. I actually lost strength and size (felt soft), but I was even eating more protein from the chicken/turkey/beef.

On with the foods list that you all have!

green leafy vegetables

Honey dew melon

Coconut oil maybe?? Not sure but I remember hearing something about that

Eggs.

[quote]duddy wrote:
Lets compile a list of foods that have anti-estrogen effects and testosterone supporting/increasing effects.

What’s the word on whole ground flax seeds. I hear mixed reviews on them, but CP recommends them for anti-estrogen?

My theory has it that grass fed meat is awesome for testosterone, but hormone injected meats will kill testosterone. I used to eat pounds and pounds of grass fed beef and buffalo a day, but due to funds I had to switch to cheap chicken/turkey/beef. The difference in testosterone was night and day. I actually lost strength and size (felt soft), but I was even eating more protein from the chicken/turkey/beef.

On with the foods list that you all have![/quote]

Testosterone production is based mostly on how much fat you eat.

If you dont eat enough your body’s production drops off.

Good beef = high fat.

chicken and turkey are lean, you didnt compensate by increasing fats in your diet elsewhere…

You simply dropped a fair amount of fats out of your diet, its not really surprising at all that your test production dropped.

Your theory is not a theory at all, its simple fact, except it has nothing to do with being “high quality” or “grass fed”.

Hormone injection has nothing to do with testosterone, the meat is identical.

This hippy babble is nonsense, you dont understand the basics.

Your diet should be nearly 60% fats to maintain adequate testosterone production.

While I do think organic food is better if one can afford it – most people cannot – the claims made for it, or against typical grocery store food, are often just utterly ridiculous.

For example, one Famous Name in Training recently was quoted as stating that beef from steroid-treated animals lacks an essential amino acid, or is low in it, I forget which.

What do they do, during their Yoga routines or when bending in a weird way over a Swiss ball, reach in and pull these things out of their ass?

On the 60% fats: I know of no evidence of this where caloric intake is at a typical maintenance level. In that instance, the data I’ve read supports 30-40%.

[quote]duddy wrote:
My theory has it that grass fed meat is awesome for testosterone, but hormone injected meats will kill testosterone. I used to eat pounds and pounds of grass fed beef and buffalo a day, but due to funds I had to switch to cheap chicken/turkey/beef. The difference in testosterone was night and day. I actually lost strength and size (felt soft), but I was even eating more protein from the chicken/turkey/beef.
[/quote]

In what intervals did you have your testosterone levels tested?

[quote]Westclock wrote:
duddy wrote:
Lets compile a list of foods that have anti-estrogen effects and testosterone supporting/increasing effects.

What’s the word on whole ground flax seeds. I hear mixed reviews on them, but CP recommends them for anti-estrogen?

My theory has it that grass fed meat is awesome for testosterone, but hormone injected meats will kill testosterone. I used to eat pounds and pounds of grass fed beef and buffalo a day, but due to funds I had to switch to cheap chicken/turkey/beef.

The difference in testosterone was night and day. I actually lost strength and size (felt soft), but I was even eating more protein from the chicken/turkey/beef.

On with the foods list that you all have!

Testosterone production is based mostly on how much fat you eat.

If you dont eat enough your body’s production drops off.

Good beef = high fat.

chicken and turkey are lean, you didnt compensate by increasing fats in your diet elsewhere…

You simply dropped a fair amount of fats out of your diet, its not really surprising at all that your test production dropped.

Your theory is not a theory at all, its simple fact, except it has nothing to do with being “high quality” or “grass fed”.

Hormone injection has nothing to do with testosterone, the meat is identical.

This hippy babble is nonsense, you dont understand the basics.

Your diet should be nearly 60% fats to maintain adequate testosterone production.[/quote]

That’s funny because my dietary fats never dropped. I made up for the lack of fat that the chicken and turkey didn’t supply. And as for the good beef = high fat - in my experience with buying different cuts of grass fed beef they are all leaner and I hear they contain more CLA.

The type of cals that I eat closely resemble what the anabolic diet has. So yes, I am eating a lot of fat. I remember reading something of CP’s on this site where he talks about the quality of meat that he eats and when he travles to some country (I forget) he gets leaner because of the high quality of meats.

PS It’s my fault for not explaining that I did make up those fat calories with other foods when switching meats.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
On the 60% fats: I know of no evidence of this where caloric intake is at a typical maintenance level. In that instance, the data I’ve read supports 30-40%.[/quote]

JB says 25-35%

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
duddy wrote:
My theory has it that grass fed meat is awesome for testosterone, but hormone injected meats will kill testosterone. I used to eat pounds and pounds of grass fed beef and buffalo a day, but due to funds I had to switch to cheap chicken/turkey/beef. The difference in testosterone was night and day.

I actually lost strength and size (felt soft), but I was even eating more protein from the chicken/turkey/beef.

In what intervals did you have your testosterone levels tested?
[/quote]

No tests, it was off “feel.” Like how I perform in the gym and my sex drive and all that good stuff.

How bout broccoli for its DIM content

or

Basil?

[quote]duddy wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
On the 60% fats: I know of no evidence of this where caloric intake is at a typical maintenance level. In that instance, the data I’ve read supports 30-40%.

JB says 25-35%[/quote]

Why don’t you experiment and see what works for you?

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Hormone injection has nothing to do with testosterone, the meat is identical.

This hippy babble is nonsense, you dont understand the basics.
[/quote]

I really hope no one follows your advice. Livestock that isn’t “grassfed” is most likely injected with large amounts of estrogen and antibiotics, which ends up in the meat and your body. The meat is NOT the same, and this will affect your hormone levels.

The thing I don’t get about the granola-chewing crowd on this sort of thing is their complete disdain for any sort of need for facts.

For example, rather obviously hormone levels in meats are measurable. And have been measured. And the information is out there and not too hard to get.

So before they write articles asserting substantial amounts of, for example, added estrogen in beef from implanted animals, one would hope, if they were not granola-chewers, that they would stop and check the facts before making the assertion.

But oh no, they never see a need for that. And if anyone provides the data showing how silly their claims are, they have utter disdain for the measured information. Oh, they KNOW that the beef is soaked with added estrogen. Oh yes sir, their yoga master said so, or whatever.

Fact: The difference in estradiol levels per, for example, 8 ounce serving of beef, between hormone-treated animals and non-treated, is about 0.0000016 mg per serving.

Funny, isn’t it, how these types writing these articles and books NEVER give actual data on the allegedly important difference in this.

Some more information on that, namely comparison with some other foods, in case a reader is unsure of whether about a millionth of a milligram difference in estradiol is important or not:

Estrogenic activity of food (equivalent micrograms of estradiol per lb):

Soybean oil 908
Cabbage 10.9
Eggs 15.9
Milk 0.59
Beef from implanted cattle 0.010
Beef from non-implanted cattle 0.007

Woooooo, gotta be scared of that beef from implanted cattle. It’s estrogenic!

Meanwhile the granola chewers love their cabbage and maybe even soybean oil. No problems there! But oh the awful estrogen in supermarket beef.

Shiitake mushrooms!

That’s interesting, I have not seen those figures.

What about other hormones and chemicals used in cattle: Oestradiol, Progesterone, Zeranol, Trenbolone, Melengestrol, growth hormone, antibiotics, etc? I don’t know, but I think it’s worth stopping to think about what we are putting in our bodies, at least until the research is conclusive.

The quality and taste of grass fed is a billion or maybe even a trillion times better.