T Nation

Followup to previous low T post

Hey guys,

I posted a message about a month ago about low T levels. Basically I was having problems with fatigue etc. despite a well thought out diet and training plan. I had my T tested and it came back at 262 ng/dl, and based on the time and day of the test, this was probably a high level for me. This is very low, especially considering I'm 24 years old. The doctor at the student health center was very closed minded and wouldn't do anything to help me, and I had very few options due to lack of health insurance.

I went through a bottle of Red Kat. It didn't do much for me, but that's probably because of my situation more than a fault in the product.

I was hoping to stick this out until I graduate and get health insurance, but things are getting worse. I had some mild sexual disfunction before, but that problem has gotten a lot worse in the past moonth. I have some desire, but getting it up is the problem.

I went back to the doctor, not expecting any help with T levels. I just planned on begging for some Cialis. Turns out there's a new doctor at the student health center. She saw my previous test and decided to test me again. I was surprised (in a good way) and she said she wanted to test my free T, prolactin, and thyroid hormone. I tried to get her to test LH as well, but she didn't go for that. At least I'm getting another chance.

She refused to give me any Cialis or Viagra, because she won't prescribe it to anyone my age. So that's still a major problem, because my relationship with my girl has been falling apart. She's been very patient but both of us are running out of patience now. If this doctor won't help me at my followup appointment on Thursday, I really need to do something about this.

The immediate problem is the sexual disfunction. Let's say the tests say about the same thing as before, but the doc still won't help me. SPE recommended Clomid to me before. For someone in my situation, do you think a drug like Cialis or Viagra, or Clomid would be the better option to get some sexual ability back?

So basically I've rambled a lot about the situation. But my other question is, based on this situation, besides bitch slapping the doctor if she won't help me, do you have any suggestions for other steps I should take after Thursday if the doc won't help me again? Again, regaining sexual function is the main thing I need. After that, do you think it might be a good idea to start hrt on my own, then going to a doctor and saying "Look, this is what I'm doing, please help me so I can do this legally, or else I'll continue without supervision from an MD"

This whole situation is very frustrating and having a big impact on many aspects of my life. I can answer any questions if it would help you give advice. Thanks

you need to get your LH levels checked;that will determine if the problem has to do with your hpta or a primary cause(testicular). have you ever used steroids? if so,how long have you been off? if your lh is low,clomid at 50 mgs per day will more than double your test levels;free and total after just 14 days. if you have used steroids,you may want to wait another month or two and be tested again but i would use the clomid no matter what.
mxim

I’m sorry to hear about your situation man, I cant help you but I hope some of the guys on here can pull together. Losing a girl over something like that would be terrible. Im cheering for you man.

From the sounds of it these “student Dr.s” are afraid to be anything but conservative! They are being evaluated on a case by case basis and doing something drastic like prescribing viagra or cialis could only draw heat which they probably don’t want.

As far as viagra and cialis, these drugs will not work well if you don’t have sufficient amount of free test. Testosterone plays a large part in getting an erection - providing penile nerve stimulation, and without this ingredient, viagra and cialis, won’t have the expected effect. Have you tried tribulus - it stimulates lh production. The other thing you could try is a couple of shots of HCG. these are used to test testicular function. If you libido improves, then the problem lies in your hypothalmic/ pituitary access, If your libido does not improve then you are clearly hypogonadic and hrt would be your best bet. So If your doctor will not help you, or at least refer you to an endocrinologist, you could try experimenting yourself. First try tribex. If this doen’t work try nolvadex or clomid, if no responce try HCG. If HCG works then you know it is a problem in your brain not your nuts. If it doesn’t, the problem is clearly in your nuts. HRT would then be a viable option. 70-100mg of test enantate per week should do the trick. When you think of the cost of a shot of test this works out only to about $30 per month -pretty affordable if you ask me! The only other thing I suggest you do is have your sperm count checked. If it is low you may want to go about getting treatment to boost it up - if you are planning on having kids later on. You can then have some sperm frozen and stored in a bank. This is one option, the other option is regular small doses of hcg every week while on hrt to ensure that you do not become sterile.

These are just ideas and opinons of mine, meant to induce thought, I am not a medical Doctor, so please be study up and be absolutely aware of every risk before you attempt any kind of protocol on your own. P-22

P#22 gave you some great advice…let me see if I can add a few things.

First off, I dont know what your situation is, but if you can, get out of that university clinic. You will not receive the type of care that you need if you continue there. The LH situation was a perfect example. What would be the consequences of testing for it? Its an extremely relevant test that would provide you wit further insight to your problem and all it would require on her part would be to check off a little box on the med form. Youre taking the blood already, its not a big deal.

Secondly, I can understand your situation (as Im going through the exact same thing right now), but youre being extremely sort-sighted with the whole sex thing. This is NOT your biggest problem right now. Its a problem, but a small part of the equation. Im not trying to scare you, but there could be a more serious underlying issue at play here. You need to exhaust all options and figure out the root cause of the problem in order to make sure its not something more serious. “Masking” the problem with cialis or viagra will do nothing but give you a false sense of security. Not to mention, Im sure there are other aspects of your life that matter to you other than sex…nobody wants to be fatigued, depressed and hindered in the gym. Point is, solving the libido issue is only part of the problem. Fix the whole thing. If your girl is for real, then she’ll be there for you and understand the situation.

I would definitly take the advice P#22 gave you. Try and determine whether or not the problem rests at the pituitary or testicular level. This is key and will determine what sort of treatment options to take.

Unfortunately, and again, im in the same boat…but endocrinologists tend to be assholes (especially when they hear you lift weights or god forbid have touched AAS). They may not want to be so proactive about restoring your health and overall quality of life. Give a few a shot, maybe you’ll get lucky (I havent yet) but you may have to look into seeing an HRT specialist or someone of that nature.

Good luck and keep us updated.

I think you guys would have better luck going to an HRT doc that wants to help you. No kidding huh?

There are some on the 'Net that will take your blood, write a scrip and help you out. I found one where you fly in and they do really comprehensive planning for you based on your goals.

Just type “Testosterone Study Replacement” into Google They’re out there, here’s a couple examples:

http://www.testosteronetherapy.tv/
http://www.real-testosterone.com/?source=google

First someone asked" have you ever used AAS in the past,if so when was your last shot or cycle? and what was used in that cycle? This is a very important question to answer. If the answer is yes, then you are expriencing normal post recovery atrophy which should reverse in time, I my case, because I am alot older then you, is taking a real long time. If you never used AAS before then P22 mentioned all your solutions.
I am in a similar situation because of my age and my previous AAS use, I am dealing with the same stone-walled Doctors, I am making some headway but I need all the advice I can get. I think I am destined to HRT in some form or another for the future, which will ot cure the problem but it will help the symtoms. All the advice is sound, “Doctor shop” there are some good caring Dr.s out there that are not afraid to help.If all fails there is always self meds out there, bit be careful, part of my problem is because I didn’t follow the suggested guidelines of AAS use when I was younger. Good Luck

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the responses. I've never used AAS in the past. I picked up a couple bottles of Mag 10 after the bad news from last week, but I'm saving them until I can get some of this straightened out.

I tried some tribulus a few years ago (wasn't tribex, it was the trihimbulus stuff from gnc). At the time I was using it more just for the hell of it and not really looking to solve any problems. I remember thinking at the time that I didn't feel any effects at all from it, sexually or otherwise. Do you think it's worth another shot, or just move on to the clomid?

I know it might seem like I'm putting too much emphasis on sex, but to be honest that's what I most urgently want to solve right now. I definitely need to solve the rest of the issues and address the underlying problem, but the sexual disfunction is the main symptom I wish I could solve the most right now.

Unfortunately I don't have many other options right now due to lack of health insurance. The LH test is frustrating because both this time and the last time I tried to get it tested and neither doctor took it seriously when I brought it up. So I guess we'll see what happens when I go back to the doctor tomorrow and then go from there.

Thanks for all of the advice and help, I really appreciate it!

I have used and recommended Tribex-500 to several friends and have used it myself. Take four caps twice daily and in a week you will the old rigidity back. The only problem is that after a few weeks the results will dwindle. At that point stop taking it for a week or two.

Don’t use some other brand. Tribex has a mixture of avena sativa (green oats) and Tribulus. Nothing works as well for sex drive. I’m 47 and have used the Tribex-500 for the sexual boost for years. You’ll feel like a new man. My doctor even takes it after seeing what it did for my T and LH levels.

The only negative side effects are frequent sexual thoughts and frequent spontaneous erections. I swear it made my balls grow.

PAP: Those are some shitty sides eh? : )

i read your post. and briefly read the respones.

sounds like you have an underlying problem. i’m gonna guess and say your in school (college) and under alot of STRESS.

perhaps tackling the underlying issue would better help your situation.

STRESS will zap t-levels and in return make you extremely exhausted, depressed and encounter low sex-drive.

perhaps you need to look at stress reduction.

jaystyles

Hey guys,

So here's what happened when I went back to the doctor today. The results of the testosterone test came back at 280 ng/dl, which is a little higher than before but still low. The doctor was happy with that, but I wasn't. So once again I repeat my symptoms and explain that I really think these results should make her consider some form of treatment. As I'm telling her all this I mention again the sexual problems etc. She wouldn't go with Clomid, but she finally decides to give me some Cialis. She prescribed the 20mg dose and told me to break them in half at first, then try the whole pill if that doesn't work.

The Cialis is better than nothing but I had been hoping at least to get some Clomid. So I'm going to try the Cialis this weekend once "that time of the month" is over, but the underlying problem is still not being addressed. Hopefully the Cialis will help, but I guess my next step is to figure out how to get some clomid...

Thanks again for all of the help!

jdurden,
Your situation sounds almost exactlt like aqhat I’m going through. I’m 25, and if the names were switched, I’d swaer I was reading about myself, down to the frustrating doctors. Have yours been trying to shove intidepressants into you? A quick search on google will find you generic clomid from suppliers outside the U.S. for $1 a pill, if that’s where you want to go. That actually leads to my question for the more experienced posters on the board. If cost was about the same, would you rather use clomiphene or Tribex for T replacement, and why? It seems that both work in the same way, and neither should shut down normal T production, right? If one were to use clomid on their own, would they follow the Tribex recommended cycling, or would they do something different?
ps I hope you don’t mind my jumping in, I was going to post another topic, but it really seemed to fit in with what you were already talking about and going through.
Good Luck,
Mark H.

jdurden-That Cialis might stiffen you up for a day but it won’t make you into the oily, horny slathering dog that a twenty-five year old should be. Try the Tribex. Back when Biotest’s main supplement was Tribex tons of good articles were written. Search and read.

Mark H.-Shit-can the idea of the Clomid for TRT. Try the Tribex first. If you can’t get levels up to par then look into real TRT.

Some old T-Mag articles:

I’m sorry to tell you this, but Cialis won’t do shit for your sex drive. What were your prolactin levels? If they were high then I would look into bromocriptine. When prolactin is high in men, T-levels are low.

Tribex with M would be a good stack - the M contains vitex aka chaste berry which is an effective anti progestin

SPE - Unfortunately I forgot to get a copy of the lab results for myself when I was at the doctor last time. But I remember Prolactin levels being in the middle of the given range. I should remember the exact number, but didn’t pay as much attention to that because it seemed to be normal. As for the Cialis, I haven’t even tested it out yet because it was so expensive. I should have shopped online for it, but once I got the prescription I went straight to the pharmacy and got it. I’m waiting to try it on Sunday since I know that will be the day I most likely will need it. Sounds like it might not do much for me, but I’ll give it a shot anyway since I already have some. SPE, just wondering, have you had any luck in correcting your situation lately? I know it sucks to deal with all of this.

Mark H. - Good luck in solving your problem too. Yep, they were trying to shove antidepressants down my throat too before I even had a chance to explain my situation. I've seen lots of sites selling Clomid, but I don't have any experience with these companies, so I'm wondering which are the best ones to deal with... I know this can't be posted on the board but if anyone wants to pm me...

Thanks to those who recommended Tribex. So here's my next question. I mentioned before I picked up two bottles of Mag 10. Does anyone see any reason why I should try something else before using the Mag 10? I know it won't correct my problem but at least it would give me some productive time in the gym. I'm thinking I'll start on it with a double dose, then after two weeks go on either Clomid or Tribex. Thanks to all who replied!

Actually, I have. My prolactin levels were in the high normal range and I figured I’d start bromo and see what happens. I had been overtraining, not eating enough, and my leptin levels were non-existent which bromo is suppose to correct. Bromo seems to have worked pretty well, but I also added some 4-ad just to boost libido a little higher:) Hope everything works out.

If you try the mag 10 now, you won’t be solving any problems, just stalling and perhaps making things worse. Mag 10 contains steroids which will suppress you natural production, allbeit not to the extent of regular anabolic steroids, but you’ll have to ask yourself what you are going to do when you come off mag 10?