T Nation

Following a Particular Program?

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone is using one of those commercial programs? Like the ones being endorsed all over the internet with outrageous claims?

Examples?

Plenty of people do Starting Strength, 5/3/1, PHAT, things like that. All are good programs and work.

Is that what you’re talking about?

[quote]staystrong wrote:
Examples?

Plenty of people do Starting Strength, 5/3/1, PHAT, things like that. All are good programs and work.

Is that what you’re talking about?[/quote]

No, I am talking about programs that are sold with thousands of free bonuses and “Today Only” promotions. Every time I search something on google related to BB, these products pop all over the place. There are couple of programs in particular “Somanabolic training” and “Engineering the Alpha” I am just curious if anyone tried these products and got any results???

[quote]wisdom_of_strong wrote:
No, I am talking about programs that are sold with thousands of free bonuses and “Today Only” promotions. Every time I search something on google related to BB, these products pop all over the place. There are couple of programs in particular “Somanabolic training” and “Engineering the Alpha” I am just curious if anyone tried these products and got any results??? [/quote]
Your best bet with those is to use common sense (if it sounds to good to be true…), do your best to track down objective, legit reviews instead of getting duped by affiliate marketers, and look into who wrote/designed the program.

I’m not very familiar with either of those you mentioned, just heard some mixed reviews of ETA, but in the past I’ve invested in a few different ebooks/programs. Ferruggia’s “Muscle Gaining Secrets” was great years ago (I haven’t kept up with any updates). And, believe it or not, I picked up Waterbury’s “Heidi Montag Workout”. Some really good info to get girls lifting, albeit with an unfortunate “spokesperson”.

I’ve been paid to write articles on my personal experience with the “Somanabolic Training” and I’ve never once done it. It is bullshit designed to make someone money.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]wisdom_of_strong wrote:
No, I am talking about programs that are sold with thousands of free bonuses and “Today Only” promotions. Every time I search something on google related to BB, these products pop all over the place. There are couple of programs in particular “Somanabolic training” and “Engineering the Alpha” I am just curious if anyone tried these products and got any results??? [/quote]
Your best bet with those is to use common sense (if it sounds to good to be true…), do your best to track down objective, legit reviews instead of getting duped by affiliate marketers, and look into who wrote/designed the program.

I’m not very familiar with either of those you mentioned, just heard some mixed reviews of ETA, but in the past I’ve invested in a few different ebooks/programs. Ferruggia’s “Muscle Gaining Secrets” was great years ago (I haven’t kept up with any updates). And, believe it or not, I picked up Waterbury’s “Heidi Montag Workout”. Some really good info to get girls lifting, albeit with an unfortunate “spokesperson”.[/quote]

Thanks for the tips. I reviewed some these mainstream programs and most of them are full of crap as far as the training methodologies are concerned. Many of them has been written to promote products rather than actually helping people.

[quote]Evolv wrote:
I’ve been paid to write articles on my personal experience with the “Somanabolic Training” and I’ve never once done it. It is bullshit designed to make someone money.[/quote]

Thanks for sharing that. It seems like majority of main stream programs are just full of crap.

I would suggest a John Meadows program if you are looking for something new and are bored with normal routines. They are absolutely not beginner friendly (his programs, not his workout articles) which is why i’ve never brought them up in this section.

For a sample, the Reactive Pump Program on this site can be done for 6 weeks instead of 12.

Absolutely man. I used to write articles in my spare time for pay and it is amazing how much “fluff” is out there on the internet. I don’t do it anymore, because I felt like a whore LOL. Even those articles like you see on About.com are sometimes written by people with no experience, but the writer will do about 10-15 minutes of research and write a quick article for pay. Even some personal training and product testimonials you see are total crap.

When it comes to training and lifting, rely on reputable sources and people. These forums are a great place and learning great authors such as Elliott Hulse, Jim Wendler, Christian Thibs, Johnnie Candito, Glenn Pendlay, Jason Ferruggia, Chris Colucci, James Steel, etcetera.

Start with this premise:

Adding muscle takes time. Serious time. Not 8 weeks time. Think 8 months. Think 8 years. TIME.

To get there takes patience, dedication, a PLAN, proper nutrition, and effort.

Now, with that in mind- what do you HONESTLY think of an advertisement or person that promises you some sort of magical response? Impossible gains? Stupefying fat loss in a short time?

Sounds like it’s BS, huh? Sounds like they are trying to sell an “easy” button, doesn’t it?

Do you think there is an “easy” button to getting bigger, stronger, faster, in better shape? Did you get to fat, weak, and out of shape in 8 weeks or less? No? Hmmm…

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Ferruggia’s “Muscle Gaining Secrets” was great years ago (I haven’t kept up with any updates).[/quote]

I bought this one a few years ago as well, I think I still have it somewhere. It worked pretty well as it goes. I was always a big fan of Jay’s style of training and blog, although recently I find it to be more commercially motivated than I’m personally comfortable with.

I wouldn’t pay for a similar product again, not because of the lack of quality, but because it seems completely unnecessary with all the free info available out there.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I would suggest a John Meadows program if you are looking for something new and are bored with normal routines. They are absolutely not beginner friendly (his programs, not his workout articles) which is why i’ve never brought them up in this section.

For a sample, the Reactive Pump Program on this site can be done for 6 weeks instead of 12.[/quote]

Hi,

Thanks for the tip I will check it out.

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
Start with this premise:

Adding muscle takes time. Serious time. Not 8 weeks time. Think 8 months. Think 8 years. TIME.

To get there takes patience, dedication, a PLAN, proper nutrition, and effort.

Now, with that in mind- what do you HONESTLY think of an advertisement or person that promises you some sort of magical response? Impossible gains? Stupefying fat loss in a short time?

Sounds like it’s BS, huh? Sounds like they are trying to sell an “easy” button, doesn’t it?

Do you think there is an “easy” button to getting bigger, stronger, faster, in better shape? Did you get to fat, weak, and out of shape in 8 weeks or less? No? Hmmm…

[/quote]

Hey man,

These are the things that bothered me also and I just wanted to find out what other forum members thought about these programs.

Is is not sad that when the actual, truthful information is readily available for everyone and yet these deceptive marketers make it so complicated and create a sense of value for their crappy products?

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Ferruggia’s “Muscle Gaining Secrets” was great years ago (I haven’t kept up with any updates).[/quote]

I bought this one a few years ago as well, I think I still have it somewhere. It worked pretty well as it goes. I was always a big fan of Jay’s style of training and blog, although recently I find it to be more commercially motivated than I’m personally comfortable with.

I wouldn’t pay for a similar product again, not because of the lack of quality, but because it seems completely unnecessary with all the free info available out there.

[/quote]

Hi,

You are right. I understand that these people need to make money but what bothers me is that when they try to oversell it by making outrageous claims.

Another thing I really dislike is the they include tens of free, yet useless bonuses. Giving 10 bonuses for for one (supposedly) high quality product does not make ay sense. I have never been given any bonuses for a high quality item I purchased. You simply get what you pay for and thats it.

You are also right about the abundance of free information but most of the stuff is unorganized and the problem is not to access this information but making sense of it.

[quote]Evolv wrote:
Absolutely man. I used to write articles in my spare time for pay and it is amazing how much “fluff” is out there on the internet. I don’t do it anymore, because I felt like a whore LOL. Even those articles like you see on About.com are sometimes written by people with no experience, but the writer will do about 10-15 minutes of research and write a quick article for pay. Even some personal training and product testimonials you see are total crap.

When it comes to training and lifting, rely on reputable sources and people. These forums are a great place and learning great authors such as Elliott Hulse, Jim Wendler, Christian Thibs, Johnnie Candito, Glenn Pendlay, Jason Ferruggia, Chris Colucci, James Steel, etcetera. [/quote]

Hey man. I am already familiar with the names you have mentioned. I was just wondering about these people popping up all over the place and selling garbage products with stupendous claims.

Yes, I realized that most of the stuff you see on About.com is useless.

I have also come across the following pages couple of days ago. Obviously, the fitness industry has totally spun out of control and it is getting worse everyday.

[quote]wisdom_of_strong wrote:
You are also right about the abundance of free information but most of the stuff is unorganized and the problem is not to access this information but making sense of it.
[/quote]

My approach to avoid confusion is pretty straightforward: what would Dan John do? T-shirts available soon.

[quote]wisdom_of_strong wrote:

Is is not sad that when the actual, truthful information is readily available for everyone and yet these deceptive marketers make it so complicated and create a sense of value for their crappy products?[/quote]

This is what con-men do. They say what you want to hear.

How do you think they are able to fool otherwise seemingly intelligent people? That guy you know at the bar, the one that is a total dirtbag and treats women like trash? He keeps reeling them in, doesn’t he? How? Surely they aren’t THAT stupid. He knows what they want to hear, so he manipulates them. They want it easy, so they get manipulated. Don’t have to think that way. When you realize that 9/10ths of the people in the world have never really thought hard about ANY thing in their lives-- you can quickly see how easily they can be swayed with the right angle.

Same goes with any con. People want to hear about shortcuts and easy buttons to get to that buff body or fat loss they’ve always dreamed of while sitting on their couch eating Cheetohs watching feetsball. But it all seems so hard! Until Johnny Fast-talker shows up and tells them about the secret “Big Muscle Inc” doesn’t want you to know about. Or Suzy Sugarlips tells you how this ONE special item/food/secret will MELT that fat away while you sit around eating Bon Bons. And it sounds soooooo attractive.

The real answer is that it’s hard. Even difficult at times. There doesn’t always seem to be a payoff in the RIGHT NOW. But if you want something worth having, there are no shortcuts. You make your own luck. You are the biggest factor in where you are, and that means you are the biggest factor in where you are going. Not the latest fad or secret. This is true not only with the iron or your fat, but also with life.

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:

[quote]wisdom_of_strong wrote:

Is is not sad that when the actual, truthful information is readily available for everyone and yet these deceptive marketers make it so complicated and create a sense of value for their crappy products?[/quote]

This is what con-men do. They say what you want to hear.

How do you think they are able to fool otherwise seemingly intelligent people? That guy you know at the bar, the one that is a total dirtbag and treats women like trash? He keeps reeling them in, doesn’t he? How? Surely they aren’t THAT stupid. He knows what they want to hear, so he manipulates them. They want it easy, so they get manipulated. Don’t have to think that way. When you realize that 9/10ths of the people in the world have never really thought hard about ANY thing in their lives-- you can quickly see how easily they can be swayed with the right angle.

Same goes with any con. People want to hear about shortcuts and easy buttons to get to that buff body or fat loss they’ve always dreamed of while sitting on their couch eating Cheetohs watching feetsball. But it all seems so hard! Until Johnny Fast-talker shows up and tells them about the secret “Big Muscle Inc” doesn’t want you to know about. Or Suzy Sugarlips tells you how this ONE special item/food/secret will MELT that fat away while you sit around eating Bon Bons. And it sounds soooooo attractive.

The real answer is that it’s hard. Even difficult at times. There doesn’t always seem to be a payoff in the RIGHT NOW. But if you want something worth having, there are no shortcuts. You make your own luck. You are the biggest factor in where you are, and that means you are the biggest factor in where you are going. Not the latest fad or secret. This is true not only with the iron or your fat, but also with life.[/quote]

Hi there, what is really surprising is that how can these cons dupe so many people and still continue to operate with ease? Don´t people make complaints after buying their crap and finding out it is not what they said it was? Apparently not much regulation or enforcement for this type of fraudsters…

I would say ANY program, commercial or otherwise, will work with someone who puts in the required effort in the execution of the program and eating. Seriously, how hard is it to eat and add weight to the bar if you are not an advanced trainee?

I can even say with much conviction that a beginner with the right attitude will make far more progress on a “bro split” that alleged juiceheads use than a beginner doing stronglifts, starting strength etc but constantly overthinks shit.

Those that buy these commercial programs are a segment of the “fitness” market that, hopefully, not too many on this site fall into. They are the ones that want to avoid basic hard work but want instant results. They will fail even with tried and proven programs. In the end they will clutter the steroid forums and Reed will start yelling at them.

Aside from this, I am more concerned with high profile authors writing crap about hardgainers and ectomorph training and genetic limitations on how much muscle can be gained per month/year without regard for the effect this has on an uneducated beginner who is unable to put this information in the right context. They do far more harm than these commercial programs.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I would say ANY program, commercial or otherwise, will work with someone who puts in the required effort in the execution of the program and eating. Seriously, how hard is it to eat and add weight to the bar if you are not an advanced trainee?

I can even say with much conviction that a beginner with the right attitude will make far more progress on a “bro split” that alleged juiceheads use than a beginner doing stronglifts, starting strength etc but constantly overthinks shit.

Those that buy these commercial programs are a segment of the “fitness” market that, hopefully, not too many on this site fall into. They are the ones that want to avoid basic hard work but want instant results. They will fail even with tried and proven programs. In the end they will clutter the steroid forums and Reed will start yelling at them.

Aside from this, I am more concerned with high profile authors writing crap about hardgainers and ectomorph training and genetic limitations on how much muscle can be gained per month/year without regard for the effect this has on an uneducated beginner who is unable to put this information in the right context. They do far more harm than these commercial programs.[/quote]

I absolutely agree with you. When someone launches a program, they automatically assume that the reader will be able to apply everything as they explained it.

Even worse than that, they are all giving time limits for these programs, which is basically the most degrading thing you can do to your expert status, because most people know that when it comes to fitness and bodybuilding, there is no “one size fits all” solution.

If three guys picked up the same program one of them would reach his goal in 20 days other one is 30 and the last one is 40 days. It is completely normal. What determines their results are the level of their individual commitment, self discipline, ability to learn and their physical capacity.

It is obvious that people are always looking for a short fix and marketers leverage on that inclination. However, even most reputable trainers are only couple of bad suggestions away from losing their expert status.

I myself stopped following many reputable names online because of the crap advice they tried to give to other people. Their advice did not even apply to my situation yet seeing that commercially driven attitude really turned me off.

By the way, I am not against any one selling products and making money, I buy a lot of things online myself. What bothers me is that they take something relatively simple and which could provide a great value if presented in a clear manner but they instead make it extremely complicated in order to increase “perceived value” of their products. As a result bunch of people waste money without getting any results and these authors lose their credibility.

Basically it is a lose-lose for everybody.