T Nation

FNG New to TRT

Age : 45
Height : 5-9
Weight : 170-175 depending on the day
Waist :31/32

Why am I here?: I am looking to maximize my performance and health. I want some input from you guys on what direction (if any) I should go. I have a friend who is a PA and also have a NP in the town I live in who are open to TRT for health reasons. They are not the typical closed-minded docs. I have read almost all the literature here on this site and have printed it out and given it to the PA and NP above.

Describe body and facial hair: Few/no hairs on back and chest. Hair on arms and legs. Couple spots on legs (around where socks come up to/shins/calves) with no/little hair. I shave 3xweek, so it grows relatively fast on my face. Have hair on my head but it is fine and always has been.
Did to grow fast or slow and steady as a teen: Pretty much normal growth.

Testes ache or hurt? ever?: No, never

Mood : Usually good sometimes moody

Depression: No

Libido: So,so. I normally want sex twice a week with my wife

Get cold easily? a change? : No, don�¢??t get cold easily however, while hunting my feet get colder much easier than when I was younger.

Dry skin: I always had oily skin, but the last year or so, Yes and this only occurred during the last year or so along with a rash on my face/neck/back of neck area. Have had to put on Lotramine cream to alleviate, although Taking Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar has helped alleviate this almost totally. brittle nails?: No

Use iodized salt?: Yes

Eat much sea food?: No

Exposure to chemicals?:No

Ever used hair loss drugs? Yes. Used Propecia for a couple months in 2002, stopped and have used Rogaine. I have not noticed any symptoms of Post Finasteride Syndrome(I watched the video).

Rx a Other things to track and report(possibly):

Avg daily body temp + avg waking body temp:Waking Temp. Has run from 96.7-97.8 for the last week, average of 97.0. While taking my temp. throughout the day, it has not gone above 97.8.

General energy levels: Ok, but not what they were a year or two ago. Im not exhausted or anything, but cant seem to push as hard during a workout as a year or two ago.

Difficulty gaining muscle / recent muscle loss : Yes have always had difficulty gaining weight/muscle/hard gainer. I lifted �¢??heavy�¢?? in my 20�¢??s trying to get as big and strong as I could and only got up to 199lbs. Had Left AC joint Sx in 1998. Started Crossfit type workouts about 5 years ago in conjunction with OLY lifts/Starting Strength. Transitioned to Crossfit Football program.

I have increased my speed from sprinting a lot on Crossfit Football programming and have increased my max height jump. Strength gains have occurred but they are slow. Max Squat is 270, DL 340, Bench-have to use DB d/t shoulder-go up to 100lbs, Press is terrible d/t shoulder and is only around 125. Training is normally 2 days on 1 day off, 2 days on(M,T,Th,F). Wednesday is core/yoga/slow ruck march stuff.

I do some martial arts a few days a week, depending on my partners schedule. I do listen to my body and if I feel shot, I take it easy. Usually I feel good till Wednesday, and then feel like I need the off day. Usually feel good again on Thursday, and tired after the workout on Friday.

Weight gain: (difficulty losing weight) : No, weight has stayed steady around 170-175 for probably 5 years. Has fluctuated in that time from 165-175.

General diet : I eat pretty close (90%+) to a Zone/Paleo diet. Monday-Saturday: No sugars, no processed foods, no carbs other than fruits and vegetables, 5 �¢??meals�¢?? a day, eat almost all my fat from olive oil/nuts (almonds and cashews), No soda ever, drink at least a gallon of water a day, take fish oil-2-3Tbl. Spoons/day, multi-vitamin, 2000-3000mg Vit C, Glucosamine/Chondroytin, Vitamin D 5000IU, drink about 3 cups coffee in AM.

Sunday I eat a bad meal, usually lunch and eat as much of desert as I want. Sometimes I may eat a little bad on a Saturday night if we go out to eat, but nothing crazy. I drink two beers on Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings,. Some evenings during the week I may have a glass of wine.

Concentration/focus/drive : Good-Moderate

Confidence level/anxiety level : Good confidence, Low anxiety

General health + number of recent antibiotic treatments: General health is excellent. I took antibiotics 4-5 years ago for a tic bite (suspected Lyme Disease). That was the first time I took antibiotics in probably a decade or more.

Chest size/gyno?/chest sensitivity: Chest is around 42�¢??/No chest sensitivity

Trouble urinating or awareness of prostate:No PSA done 5/29/13=0.7

Morning erections/ability to maintain erections: Probably have morning erections 3-4 days a week. Usually no trouble maintaining erections, have on a few occasions over the last couple years-maybe could count on one hand.

Current supplement/vitamin regimine: Multi-Vitamin, 3000mg Vit C/day, 50000IU Vitamin D, Glucosamine/Chondroytin, Chinese Herbs (in tea):Astragalus, Codonopsis, Licorice Root, Jujube Dates (last 12 years). I take a protein shake after working out as a �¢??meal/snack�¢??-8-10oz whole milk and a scoop of Whey protein. Also drink a scoop of BCAA�¢??s in about 16oz water post-workout.

Past medication/supplement history: Pretty much the same as above.

Normal sleep patterns and OTC drugs: Sleep varies from good to waking up some mornings still tired. Do not sleep as good as a few years ago-I wake up 3-4 times a night but go right back to sleep. In the past years of my life I always slept well and felt rested. Usually get up one time to urinate, maybe 4/7-5/7 nights. Knees have been sore for the last year or two when I wake up?. No OTC meds taken on a regular basis.

I have to have a yearly check up for our insurance, so these labs were done on 5/29/13. I gave the NP the lab info I needed to post, but some of it was not included in the work-up. I apologize and hopefully you all have enough information to give me a direction to go.
Profile/Panel/Test Unit Normal Range

Cortisol ug/dL ? (15 - 20 ideal for 8am blood draw)
Cortisol, Free mcg/dL ? (.75 or more ideal??)
ACTH, Plasma pg/mL ?
Plasma Renin Activity ng/mL/h ? (3.0 or more ideal)
Aldosterone ng/dL ? (14 - 28 ideal?)
Total Testosterone ng/dL 524 (600 - 1000 ideal??)
Free Testosterone (Direct) 9.7
Estradiol pg/mL 10.3 (lab range 7.6-42.6)
IGF-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor) ng/mL (200 or more ideal???)
Homocysteine, Cardo umol/L (<6.3 ideal)

TSH ulU/mL 1.740 (<1.5 ideal?)
Thyroxine (T4) ug/dL 6.5 (8.0 - 12.0 ideal?)
Thyroxine (T4) Free ug/dL ? (1.1 - 1.7 ideal)
Triiodothyronine (T3) Free pg/mL ? (3.3 - 3.9 ideal?)
T3 Uptake=36
Free Thyronine Index=2.3

WBC X10^3/uL 5.3 (4.0 - 5.5 ideal)
RBC X10^6/uL 4.93 (4.7 - 5.2 male ideal)
Platelets X10^3/uL 161 (230 - 400 ideal)
Neutrophils % 48 (50 - 60% ideal)
Lymphs % 44 (30 - 45% ideal)
Monocytes % 7 (3 - 8% ideal)
EOS% % 1 (0 - 3% ideal)
BASOS% % 0 (0 - 1% ideal)
Hemoglobin g/dL 14.8 (14 - 15 male ideal)
Hematocrit % 45.2 (42 - 48% ideal male)
MCV fL 92 (87 - 92 ideal)
MCH pg ? (28 - 32 ideal)
RDW % 13.6 (13% is ideal)

Glucose mg/dL 96 (93 - 100 ideal?)
BUN (Urea Nitrogen) mg/dL 24 (12 - 20 ideal)
Creatine, Serum mg/dL .97 (0.8 - 1.1 ideal)
Sodium, Serum mmol/L 140 (142 - 144 ideal)
Potassium, Serum mmol/L 4.1 (4.0 - 4.5 ideal)
Chloride, Serum mmol/L 104 (101 - 103 ideal)
CO2 mEq/l 22 (24 - 28 ideal)
CALCIUM mg/dL 9.4 (9.5 - 10.2 ideal)
Total Protein Serum g/dL 6.7 (7.2 - 8.0 ideal)
ALBUMIN g/dl 4.8 (4.5 - 5.0 ideal)
GLOBULIN g/dl 1.9 (2.3 - 2.8 ideal)
ALB/GLOB ? (1.7 - 2.2 ideal)
AST/SGOT U/L 23 (20 - 30 ideal)
ALT/SGPT U/L 21 (20 - 30 ideal)
Anion Gap ? (10 - 12 ideal)

Cholesterol, Total mg/dL 154 (185 - 200 ideal?)
Triglycerides mg/dL 38 (< 60 ideal or 70 - 100? Differing opinions)
HDL mg/dL 64 (60 or more OR 55 - 75 ideal?)
LDL Calculated mg/dL 82 (< 60 ideal)
Lipoprotien(a) nmol/L ? (0 is ideal)

VITAMIN B12 pg/mL ? (700 or more ideal)
Vitamin D, 25-OH Total ng/mL ? (70 - 90 ideal)
Ferritin ng/mL ? (100 or more ideal for male, but <200)
% Saturation calc ? (35 - 45% ideal)
Magnesium, RBC ng/dL ? (higher is better?)
Fibrinogen Activity, Clauss mg/dL ? (< 331 Ideal?)
Phosphorus ? (3.8 - 4.2 ideal)

I appreciate any input you all can give me.

Many labs are “?”, if you can fix, used the [Edit] above lower RH corner.

Can’t understand anything without E2, FT.

You may have iodine deficiency, at least that would be the best explanation, because you can fix that. Have you read the thyroid basics sticky.
Note the issues with rT3 that can lower temperatures when fT3, fT4 are good. Elevated rT3 can dome from starvation diets, over training, life events, illnesses or infections, chronic infections …

Low thyroid can lead to dry skin. Lotramine is a fungal med that is known to decrease T, depending on one’s dose and liver response.

If you did not use iodized salt for a while, you get into a hole and RDA amounts can be unable to fix that. That is why I ask for history.

Are you over training? Protein level is low and triglycerides are low too.

EFA’s, you could add flax seed oil or meal. Fats are important. The are a prime component of nerves and brain cells and every cell wall in your body. And cell wall permeability and mechanics are very to the point when it comes to health.

Thanks for the reply KSman.

I will speak to the NP or my friend the PA and see about getting E2 and FT tested.

I read the Thyroid sticky and wondered about the iodine deficiency, glad I was thinking correctly. Should I order some of that Kelp shake on stuff?

I have stopped using the lotramine for over a month d/t “fixing” the dry skin with the vinegar.

I dont think Im overtraining? My workouts are very intense but short. For example today I did 3RM Power Cleans at 185, then 3 sets of 25lb weighted chinups max reps:12,12,12, then 5 rounds of 9 Hang Cleans, 6 Front Squats, 3 Push Press with 115lbs. as fast as possible, 7 min some odd seconds for the 5 rounds. Then I did some core stuff for about 5-10 minutes. That would be an example of a workout.

I eat Four-Five ounces of protein three times a day, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, a scoop of protein in whole milk after a workout, and three ounces of protein after supper for my last meal. Do I need to up my protein intake?

On the fat, I thought I was eating a good bit. I eat a ton of almonds and/or cashews each meal, use olive oil to cook and on vegetables, take the fish oil I listed, use whole milk for my after workout shake, and recently bought some coconut oil. Do you think I need to up my fats as well?

Ive tried to give you as good a representation of everything I could think of. Like I said I will see about getting E2 and FT tested, and will get back to you.

Thank you for the help, Jim_D

Your body temperatures suggest a real problem. Most kelp products are not sufficient for IR. Kelp can be one step above maintenance doses.

Can you fix:
Thyroxine (T4) Free ug/dL ? (1.1 - 1.7 ideal)
Triiodothyronine (T3) Free pg/mL ? (3.3 - 3.9 ideal?)
Why “?”

I added the data for Free Testoserone (Direct), which was 9.7 (6.8-21.5 pg/ML Range)

I will buy another thermometer to be certain there wasnt something wrong with it, just to be sure.

I will work on getting an Estradiol level and T4.

I put question marks when I was not provided any data for the item.

Quick update.

I ordered some Idoral and loaded for about four weeks. I checked my temp yesterday in the afternoon and it was 98.6 on the nose. Guess I was iodine deficient. I’m going to take one pill a day for maintanance. I have slept much better in the last two weeks than in the previous year or two. Mood has been much more level as well. Want to say thank you to all who provided info about ID it really has helped.

I spoke to my PA buddy and I’m getting blood work for Estradiol today, will post the level when I get it. He is open minded and is trying to learn more on his own about TRT. He works out and is healthy and is also interested form a personal and professional level.


I updated my post for Estradiol. My blood work said it is 10.3 (lab range 7.6-42.6).

Previous post was about getting body temperature regulated through IR.

My question is now what?

What direction should I go?


Suggest 6.5mg iodine once a week for maintenance. 12.5/day is definitely not prudent despite what you can find otherwise.

See what you can do to increase cholesterol, ideal is near 180. Sometimes over-training can drive down cholesterol.

I do not understand why E2 is so low. If taking supplements to decrease E2, suggest that you reduce. You will feel better with more E2. I assume that the E2 data is post iodine replenishment. Low E2 is associated with mood problems, libido problems, joint problems and some CV issues.

After a while, recheck T levels and see if they have improved.

If you understand mitochondrial function, you will be interested to know that thyroid levels regulate mitochondrial activity. If that has improved, your body is better able to burn fats in your blood stream, all the more when driven by exercise.

Glad to see your positive results. I assume through this that your metal clarity has improved. But noting that you reported feeling quite good at the outset and that you were seeking optimization.

At this point, you can focus on longevity:

  • PSA
  • homocysteine, EFA’s, B vitamins, vit-C, natural source vit-E, blood pressure
  • DHEA, you need DHEA-S labs at your age to see if you need to supplement, DHEA levels always decline with age.

I am not on anything to lower E2 so I don’t know why it’s soo low. I do have some of the symptoms of low E2-libido is decreased (I can get it up but only desire it about once a week) and I am a little moody at times. Another source of info recommended T and HCG and DHEA for low T, low FT and low E2. Would you recommend T for me and my low FT levels? From what I have read low E2 is more dangerous than high E2 so I really want to get it squared away.

Thanks for all the help.

Some guys freely convert DHEA–>E2, you can try it, 25mg/day
Don’t forget that sometimes a lab value can be bogus, get tested again at some point.

Fungicides can do weird things:
For example, ketoconazole not only competes with androgens such as testosterone and DHT for androgen receptor binding, but also suppresses androgen synthesis by inhibiting cytochrome P450 and 17,20-lyase, which partake in synthesizing and degrading steroids, including the precursors of testosterone. The result is a decrease in the overall testosterone production of the adrenal cortex.[9]

Update on progress

Ive been taking a compounded cream of 50mg Test since mid November. I have felt better and slept much better. Ive also made increases in overall strength and speed. I had new labs done on 2/5 and 2/7. They didnt draw enough blood for all the testing, so my numbers for Testosterone were from blood drawn in the afternoon, dont know if that matters? Also, the Testosterone labs were done by Labcorp, which Im a little upset about. My PA didnt know not to use them and he didnt tell me.

LabQuest Testosterone LC/MS/MS 62.8 (46.0-224) My levels are still in the lower 1/3 of the range?
Estradiol pg/mL 19 AM/26 PM (lab range 7.6-42.6)
LH 4.1AM/5.3 PM
Homocysteine, Cardo umol/L 9.2 (<6.3 ideal)

TSH ulU/mL 1.25 (<1.5 ideal?)
Thyroxine (T4) ug/dL (8.0 - 12.0 ideal?)
Thyroxine (T4) Free ug/dL ? (1.1 - 1.7 ideal)
Triiodothyronine (T3) Free pg/mL ? (3.3 - 3.9 ideal?)
T3 Uptake=
Free Thyronine Index=

WBC X10^3/uL 5.7 (4.0 - 5.5 ideal)
RBC X10^6/uL 4.96 (4.7 - 5.2 male ideal)
Platelets X10^3/uL 159 (230 - 400 ideal)
Neutrophils % (50 - 60% ideal)
Lymphs % (30 - 45% ideal)
Monocytes % (3 - 8% ideal)
EOS% % (0 - 3% ideal)
BASOS% % (0 - 1% ideal)
Hemoglobin g/dL (14 - 15 male ideal)
Hematocrit % (42 - 48% ideal male)
MCV fL 90.9 (87 - 92 ideal)
MCH pg 30.1 (28 - 32 ideal)
RDW % 13.3 (13% is ideal)

Glucose mg/dL 102 (93 - 100 ideal?)
BUN (Urea Nitrogen) mg/dL 19.0 (12 - 20 ideal)
Creatine, Serum mg/dL 1.1 (0.8 - 1.1 ideal)
Sodium, Serum mmol/L 143 (142 - 144 ideal)
Potassium, Serum mmol/L 4.0 (4.0 - 4.5 ideal)
Chloride, Serum mmol/L 105 (101 - 103 ideal)
CO2 mEq/l 27 (24 - 28 ideal)
CALCIUM mg/dL 9.1 (9.5 - 10.2 ideal)
Total Protein Serum g/dL 67.5 (7.2 - 8.0 ideal)
ALBUMIN g/dl 4.3 (4.5 - 5.0 ideal)
GLOBULIN g/dl 1 (2.3 - 2.8 ideal)
ALB/GLOB `1.3 (1.7 - 2.2 ideal)
AST/SGOT U/L 27 (20 - 30 ideal)
ALT/SGPT U/L (20 - 30 ideal)
Anion Gap 11.0 (10 - 12 ideal)

Cholesterol, Total mg/dL 192 (185 - 200 ideal?)
Triglycerides mg/dL 32 (< 60 ideal or 70 - 100? Differing opinions)
HDL mg/dL 70 (60 or more OR 55 - 75 ideal?)
LDL Calculated mg/dL (< 60 ideal)
Lipoprotien(a) nmol/L ? (0 is ideal)
CLDL 115.6

Im waiting on DHEA results, as Ive been taking 50mg once a day.

Any input is appreciated.

LEF.org had a half off sale on blood work, so I had my labs done recently. The results suggest my body is not getting anything out of the T cream. My E2 has gotten even lower and my T has not risen at all. Sleep and libido have been variable.

The biggest question I have is, what is causing my E2 to be soo low? I have not been able to find any info as to what exactly causes low E2. Another question, is there any way to increase E2 without taking T?

I have continued to take 1/2 an idoral each week, and have added 50mg. DHEA.

It looks like I still need more EFA’s as well.

I would really appreciate your guys input.

Labs below:

TSH ulU/mL 1.850 (<1.5 ideal?)

WBC X10^3/uL 5.2 (4.0 - 5.5 ideal)
RBC X10^6/uL 5.18 (4.7 - 5.2 male ideal)
Platelets X10^3/uL 163 (230 - 400 ideal)
Neutrophils 45 % (50 - 60% ideal)
Lymphs 45 % (30 - 45% ideal)
Monocytes 8 % (3 - 8% ideal)
EOS 2 % (0 - 3% ideal)
BASOS 0% % (0 - 1% ideal)
Hematocrit % (42 - 48% ideal male)
MCV fL 90.9 (87 - 92 ideal)
MCH pg 30.1 (28 - 32 ideal)
RDW % 13.3 (13% is ideal)

Glucose mg/dL 84 (93 - 100 ideal?)
BUN (Urea Nitrogen) mg/dL 24 (12 - 20 ideal)
Creatine, Serum mg/dL 1.06 (0.8 - 1.1 ideal)
Sodium, Serum mmol/L 142(142 - 144 ideal)
Potassium, Serum mmol/L 4.6 (4.0 - 4.5 ideal)
Chloride, Serum mmol/L 101 (101 - 103 ideal)
CO2 mEq/l 27 (24 - 28 ideal)
CALCIUM mg/dL 9.1 (9.5 - 10.2 ideal)
Total Protein Serum g/dL 6.8 (7.2 - 8.0 ideal)
ALBUMIN g/dl 4.9 (4.5 - 5.0 ideal)
GLOBULIN g/dl 1.9 (2.3 - 2.8 ideal)
ALB/GLOB `2.6 (1.7 - 2.2 ideal)
AST/SGOT U/L 27 (20 - 30 ideal)
ALT/SGPT U/L (20 - 30 ideal)
Anion Gap 11.0 (10 - 12 ideal)

Cholesterol, Total mg/dL 183 (185 - 200 ideal?)
Triglycerides mg/dL 46 (< 60 ideal or 70 - 100? Differing opinions)
HDL mg/dL 70 (60 or more OR 55 - 75 ideal?)
LDL Calculated mg/dL 104 (< 60 ideal)

Homocysteine Plasma 9.0 (0.0-15.0)
PSA 0.7 (0.0-4.0)

T Serum 489 (348-1197)
Free T 9.1 (6.8-21.5)
DHEA Sulfate 200.5 (71.6-375.4)
Estradiol <5.1 (7.6-42.6)

Vitamin D25 Hydroxy 74.6 (30.0-100.0)

In both sets of labs, you have ranges but no lab result. Please check everything and make edits to your posts using the [edit] function in the lower right hand corner of the posts.

T4, fT4 fT3, hematocrit, if fT3 is low, you may need thyroid drugs.

FT can vary a lot with T creams

Inability to absorb transdermal T can be a symptom of thyroid problems, which you do have. TSH is too high.

Typical absorption of transdermal T, when it works well is 10%*. So you are getting 5mg/day. That is not enough.

  • Injection delivery is always 100% I would double your dose. Expensive? T injections are cheap.

More fT will lead to more E2. Transdermals typically have largest E2 potential. So going to injections would loose that factor.

Can you ask to trial injected T for a while to see if you feel better and labs improve?

Thanks for the reply KSman.

I have an appointment tomorrow with another doctor. My regular doctor is my friend who is a PA, the problem is the physician who is over him will not allow someone to self-inject. Once I saw my lab results, I knew, or figured, that I would need to get a script for injecting T. Ive heard the physician I have an appointment with tomorrow has allowed others to self-inject, so Im crossing my fingers. When I discuss my extremely low E2, Im going to talk about it and act like he knows all about what this can cause. Im hoping that if he doesnt understand it that he will act like he does and then go research it instead of just saying “no”. Overall he has a good reputation as a doctor, so Im hoping for the best.

The recent blood labs did not come with a thyroid panel. I will discuss this with the doc tomorrow and hopefully he will recommend thyroid labs. As you can see in my first post, last years labs did not have rT3 assessed. I was hoping there was possibly a way to increase E2 without T, but from all the reading Ive done, this seems like the only way. My E2 must obviously be variable, because sometimes I will feel better, have nightly erections and my workouts and sex will be good. Other times it must bottom out, like it was on the day my blood was drawn. I just wish I could figure out what in the hell is causing my E2 to be soo low? Another weird thing is that I read that normally when E2 is low, you gain belly fat, like you would with low T. I have abs and have 10% or less body fat, which is kinda strange isnt it? Also, in the gym I am making steady, although slow gains in strength, which is weird considering the low E2.

I will update with any new information, and once again, thank you for all your help.


General discussion:

We have seen flawed E2 labs from labcorp where the results are zilch. I would not go to extremes based on any isolated lab number.

rT3 is not performed very often as the issues concerning rT3 are not really on the radar scope. Docs are looking for hyper or hypo conditions. If your other thyroid levels appear good to them, then you are normal and they will not be looking for other explanations for hypo symptoms. This is where body temps are so important as low temps indicate functional hypothyroidism even when other thyroid lab data would suggest that everything is optimal.

If ones other labs are good and body temperatures are fine, it does not really make sense to do rT3 lab work. However, if there are a lot of stress levels [stress, surgeries, accidents, infections etc], one can test rT3 as part of a diagnostic workup for adrenal fatigue [which most of the medical community does not believe exists]. Body temps are really important from the beginning.

After meeting with the doc he had me give blood to check cortisol, B12 and inflammation. He never heard of low E2 having any effects like I’m experiencing. Unfortunately everything I’ve read on here about docs has been true thus far. He did say he would research low E2 so we will see what he says.

I felt him out for my thyroid issue by asking saying thyroid problems also show all the same symptoms I’m experiencing and he said “your TSH is fine and that is all that matters.” I just took my temp and it was only 97.7, so that may be a big part of my problem. How to get a doc to listen to the possibility will be the problem, as my PA friend said he knew the doc would say that because it is all they are taught. I meet with him again Wednesday.

Its weird because my symptoms are variable. The last two nights I’ve slept great, felt rested and feel good today. Tuesday at the gym I felt like shit. As an example it took me 8 min. To dead lift 225 for 50 reps and I’ve done it in 4 minutes before.

I’m beginng to think this could be thyroid and E2 related but who knows.

Your symptoms are high TSH, inability to absorb transdermal T, low body temperatures, low energy etc.

So you loaded iodine last August and TSH was lower earlier this year. Did you stop taking iodine?

One way to tell if your well-being is been limited by thyroid is to do a low dose trial. But the doctors … If that works, that is diagnostic.

I don’t know your protocol or dose, but your labs suggest that you could double your T dose and that should also increase E2.


I think I may have figured out a large part of my problem.

Last year, when I began all this I learned about my low temp. along with my high TSH, indicated a possible thyroid issue… I did load the iodine, and my temps came back up. I have continued the Idoral 1/2 a pill, 1x per week. I never went back and checked my temps, as I ASSumed the iodine had resolved that issue. This week, after reexamining everything, I went back, as I stated, and checked my temps and they were low, even while continuing to take the Idoral, and also, as you stated, my TSH was off and had even gone up. So, I started digging deeper into looking at thyroid information. What I stumbled on pissed me off, as I am an idiot for not seeing it sooner. I read that, as I knew bromine can hurt thyroid function, but also fluorine and chlorine. Well, I have probably used bleach daily for 6 years. My wife put it in the kitchen on the sink, and anytime I handled raw meat or something like that I would spray a little on my hands as I washed them, or to disinfect stuff in the kitchen.

I think this is the cause of my thyroid problem. Your thoughts? Also, do you believe another loading of Idoral would speed the process of displacing the chlorine from my system?

Is it possible that the high chlorine levels that are messing with my thryroid, can be killing my aromatization of T to E2?

If you agree with the assessment above, possibly, clearing up this issue will resolve the others. I feel like an idiot for not seeing or bringing this up sooner but it just never crossed my mind but way back in your first reponse to my thread you mentioned chemicals, and it never clicked.

Your body is full of chlorine ions from sodium-chloride in your body.

Based on this, nothing seems to be concern:
Sodium, Serum mmol/L 142(142 - 144 ideal)
Potassium, Serum mmol/L 4.6 (4.0 - 4.5 ideal)
Chloride, Serum mmol/L 101 (101 - 103 ideal)

I don’t think that chlorine is a problem. But I think that exposure to chlorine bleach is a bad thing. I have no idea if that could impact overall thyroid function. Read the warnings on your bottle of bleach.

Perchlorate affects the ability of the thyroid gland to take up iodine. This would affect the functions of the thyroid gland and its performance in the body. Perchlorate is a product of sodium hypochlorite decomposition. The longer hypochlorite is kept by the utility before use, the more likely the significant increase in perchlorate. Also, the development of perchlorate?s use in rocket propellants and the improper disposal of wastes from the manufacture of these propellants has been a cause for the appearance of perchlorate in raw water supplies.

Rapid turnover of the hypochlorite and/or a reduction in inventory of the sodium hypochlorite at the treatment plant will aid in the reduction of perchlorate development. Conversion to chlorine gas from hypochlorite would also be of help since perchlorate is not present in chlorine.




So do you think I should do another iodine load and see if there is any change?

Also, if I reload iodine, should I wait to see if there is any change after taking the iodine before starting on T shots?

I have an appt. with the doctor Wednesday, so I’m trying to decide what course to follow.