Fluoride Conspiracy

Off Topic
21

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Isnt fluoride like a synthetic version of the naturally occuring flurine?
[/quote]

Its an element. Carbon, Aluminum, Nickel, Oxygen, Flourine, Nickel.

You cannot syntetically make Flourine unless you had some sort of atomic fission/fusion reactor that works like the inside of the sun.

And flouride is just a name to say that its part of something.

Table salt is sodium chloride. But if you were to have just the ‘chloride’ by itself it would be called Chlorine.

Just like you have Iron Oxide. If you have the ‘oxide’ by itself its called Oxygen.

Its terminology.

22

[quote]Qualay wrote:
my math teacher of two years ago didn’t think it was a conspiracy, but did think it was terrible. He noted that fluoride is a byproduct of the steel making process, which the goverment buys from big companies…

I don’t know…[/quote]

The fluoride used is not industrial waste. It is this type of stuff that makes it hard to take seriously.

There is a concern with fluoride and thyroid function.

23

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Miserere wrote:
I read somewhere that fluoride doesn’t get absorbed into the teeth after the age of 4-6.

I’ve noticed that people who don’t brush their teeth have brown teeth.

But maybe that’s just a conspiratorial coincidence…

What you read about absorption is related to teeth that are still developing. It is those early ages when fluoride is the most benefit to the strength of secondary teeth once they erupt. I can look in someone’s mouth and tell most of the time if they grew up around fluoridated water. After that age, topical treatment is most effective as that found in water serves much less of a purpose through systemic effects. Products like “Act” mouthrinse or topical fluoride from your dentist would help teeth resist cavities.

In other words, fluoridated water is most beneficial to children.

Isnt fluoride like a synthetic version of the naturally occuring flurine?

My understand is that fluoride is good for your teeth, but bad to injest.

I’d really like to know what exactly fluoride is…or how they produce it. By product of some aluminium production…or something. Seems a little far fetched, but you never know.

I’m pretty sure most of Europe is non fluroide. I wonder how that correlates to brown teeth and decay.
[/quote]

Flourine + Water = Flouride

24

i heard there’s this new water coming to a gas station fridge near you that has not only flourine, but all of the halogens in it

i get thirsty just thinking about it

25

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
Flourine + Water = Flouride
[/quote]

Flourine + Water = Fluoric Acid.
This is the only known acid that can eat away at glass. And other things.

Salt containing Flouride + Water = Flouride in solution.

You can use magnesium flouride, sodium flouride… etc.

26

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Qualay wrote:
my math teacher of two years ago didn’t think it was a conspiracy, but did think it was terrible. He noted that fluoride is a byproduct of the steel making process, which the goverment buys from big companies…

I don’t know…

The fluoride used is not industrial waste. It is this type of stuff that makes it hard to take seriously.

There is a concern with fluoride and thyroid function.[/quote]

You’re right about the conspiraciy theories screwing this stuff up. ‘Fluorine’ is the atom, and is the lightest of the halogens. Fluorine is also the common term to refer to difluorine, F2, which is a pretty nasty gas. Fluoride is a single atom of Fluorine that has gained an electron, giving it a negative charge. It can associate with any positively charged ion.

You don’t need a conspiracy for Fluoride to be dangerous, you just need ‘enough’ of it. For example, it was once commonly used as a rat poison. The difference between ‘helping teeth’ and ‘killing you’ is just the amount you ingest at once. Think that’s crazy? Take one tylenol, and your headache goes away. Take 200 of them at once and your headache also goes away, along with your heartbeat. The amount in our drinking water is low enough that we don’t have to worry, and fluoride doesn’t ‘bioaccumulate’ well, meaning that even prolonged injestion of it doesn’t cause fluoride to build up in your system.

That said, it’s totally the reason I can’t squat ass to grass. seriously.

27

[quote]lurker26 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Qualay wrote:
my math teacher of two years ago didn’t think it was a conspiracy, but did think it was terrible. He noted that fluoride is a byproduct of the steel making process, which the goverment buys from big companies…

I don’t know…

The fluoride used is not industrial waste. It is this type of stuff that makes it hard to take seriously.

There is a concern with fluoride and thyroid function.

You’re right about the conspiraciy theories screwing this stuff up. ‘Fluorine’ is the atom, and is the lightest of the halogens. Fluorine is also the common term to refer to difluorine, F2, which is a pretty nasty gas. Fluoride is a single atom of Fluorine that has gained an electron, giving it a negative charge. It can associate with any positively charged ion.

You don’t need a conspiracy for Fluoride to be dangerous, you just need ‘enough’ of it. For example, it was once commonly used as a rat poison. The difference between ‘helping teeth’ and ‘killing you’ is just the amount you ingest at once. Think that’s crazy? Take one tylenol, and your headache goes away. Take 200 of them at once and your headache also goes away, along with your heartbeat. The amount in our drinking water is low enough that we don’t have to worry, and fluoride doesn’t ‘bioaccumulate’ well, meaning that even prolonged injestion of it doesn’t cause fluoride to build up in your system.

That said, it’s totally the reason I can’t squat ass to grass. seriously.[/quote]
Where did you find this info out?
Can you cite the info please.
Thanks for your response

28

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
Where did you find this info out?
Can you cite the info please.
Thanks for your response
[/quote]

Any Chem texbook will do. Ask Zap if you want to know about chemicals. I think he mentioned he is/was a Chemist.

29

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Miserere wrote:
I read somewhere that fluoride doesn’t get absorbed into the teeth after the age of 4-6.

I’ve noticed that people who don’t brush their teeth have brown teeth.

But maybe that’s just a conspiratorial coincidence…

What you read about absorption is related to teeth that are still developing. It is those early ages when fluoride is the most benefit to the strength of secondary teeth once they erupt. I can look in someone’s mouth and tell most of the time if they grew up around fluoridated water. After that age, topical treatment is most effective as that found in water serves much less of a purpose through systemic effects. Products like “Act” mouthrinse or topical fluoride from your dentist would help teeth resist cavities.

In other words, fluoridated water is most beneficial to children.

Isnt fluoride like a synthetic version of the naturally occuring flurine?

My understand is that fluoride is good for your teeth, but bad to injest.

I’d really like to know what exactly fluoride is…or how they produce it. By product of some aluminium production…or something. Seems a little far fetched, but you never know.

I’m pretty sure most of Europe is non fluroide. I wonder how that correlates to brown teeth and decay.
[/quote]

I’ve lived in Europe and i have to say the teeth over in America seem to sparkle and my teeth certainly are whiter after being here for only a year. Note i only lived in England for 2 years ,but in that Time my teeth got stained.

30

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
lurker26 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Qualay wrote:
my math teacher of two years ago didn’t think it was a conspiracy, but did think it was terrible. He noted that fluoride is a byproduct of the steel making process, which the goverment buys from big companies…

I don’t know…

The fluoride used is not industrial waste. It is this type of stuff that makes it hard to take seriously.

There is a concern with fluoride and thyroid function.

You’re right about the conspiraciy theories screwing this stuff up. ‘Fluorine’ is the atom, and is the lightest of the halogens. Fluorine is also the common term to refer to difluorine, F2, which is a pretty nasty gas. Fluoride is a single atom of Fluorine that has gained an electron, giving it a negative charge. It can associate with any positively charged ion.

You don’t need a conspiracy for Fluoride to be dangerous, you just need ‘enough’ of it. For example, it was once commonly used as a rat poison. The difference between ‘helping teeth’ and ‘killing you’ is just the amount you ingest at once. Think that’s crazy? Take one tylenol, and your headache goes away. Take 200 of them at once and your headache also goes away, along with your heartbeat. The amount in our drinking water is low enough that we don’t have to worry, and fluoride doesn’t ‘bioaccumulate’ well, meaning that even prolonged injestion of it doesn’t cause fluoride to build up in your system.

That said, it’s totally the reason I can’t squat ass to grass. seriously.
Where did you find this info out?
Can you cite the info please.
Thanks for your response

[/quote]

He’s correct for the most part even if he doesn’t give a reference. Fluoride is a component of fluorine. Too much fluoride (just like too much of nearly anything) can kill you. This is usually the part where people get confused…because many can’t seem to think of things in graduations or scales of gray. Everything is either all good or all bad. Too much water can kill you. Too little can also kill you.

Topical fluoride gets incorporated into the chemical structure of your teeth directly which helps strengthen them to a degree and can even help remineralize small areas that are on the verge of becoming serious cavities. Systemic fluoride intake would be most beneficial to developing teeth (those of growing children). Too much fluoride can lead to fluorosis or white streaks on the teeth.

This is why it pays to understand that there is no need to overdose on fluoride and more does not always equal better. It becomes more of an issue in those who completely avoid fluoridated water and even topical fluoride sources (like those who brush with baking soda).

31

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fluoride is a component of fluorine./quote]

Flouride is a state of flourine where the atom is ionically bonded to a metal atom and this forms an ionic compound, a salt.

32

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Fluoride is a component of fluorine./quote]

Flouride is a state of flourine where the atom is ionically bonded to a metal atom and this forms an ionic compound, a salt.[/quote]

I doesn’t have to be bound to a metal; any cation will do. For example, tetrabutyl ammonium fluoride (TBAF) is commonly used for the removal of silyl ether protecting groups in organic synthesis; the tetracoordiante amine takes the place of the metal ion in this case, allowing it to disolve in typical organic solvents.

As to sources for my previous post, a lot of it is ‘common knowlege’ for people who work in chemistry. If you want the specifics, according to the material saftey data sheet for sodium fluoride, the LD50 (dose that will kill half of the test group) for sheep is 100mg/kg.

That means a 220 pound person would have to choke down 10 grams of it in a single sitting to have a 50% chance of dying (assuming you’re a lot like a sheep). Water usually has less than 1mg per litre of fluoride, so you’d need ten thousand litres of water (about 2650 gallons) to even approach that. Feel thirsty?

However, I do find that when I drink that much water, I have an uncontrolable urge to curl in squat racks. So maybe there’s a problem with it after all.

33

Before they put fluoride in the water in Australia, many people had a LOT of teeth problems, just as the UK has today (with no fluoride).

Once they put it in, the teeth problems dropped off. But how related that is, is beyond me - it could be that people were better educated and cleaned their teeth more. On the other hand, in England, bad teeth are more common. Then again their dental care is damned expensive.

Personally though I think you’d be better off drinking water from a glass bottle that has a really good mix of minerals in it, eating less sugar and making sure you take care of your teeth. Of course that is expensive.

Dropping Coke from your diet should have a better effect than having fluoride in the water.

Note most cultures with no sugar in their diet naturally have pretty good teeth.

34

[quote]lurker26 wrote:
I doesn’t have to be bound to a metal; any cation will do. For example, tetrabutyl ammonium fluoride (TBAF) is commonly used for the removal of silyl ether protecting groups in organic synthesis; the tetracoordiante amine takes the place of the metal ion in this case, allowing it to disolve in typical organic solvents.[/quote]

We’re talking about drinking water here. I know it can be attached to any cation. But that doesn’t mean you can ingest it.

The flouride component may not be bad for you… but try to attach it to a lead cation instead of something like sodium.

35

Guys, take a break. I work for my town’s water and sewer department, and like all water departments, we have to keep a certain amount of flouride in the water.

If you get too high amount, then the Health Department will be all over your ass and everyone will be shut down. There is nothing to worry about when it comes to flouride in the water, unless your city is mishandling the amount of flouride that is pumped into the system (which I can almost garauntee you they’re not doing that).

36

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
lurker26 wrote:
I doesn’t have to be bound to a metal; any cation will do. For example, tetrabutyl ammonium fluoride (TBAF) is commonly used for the removal of silyl ether protecting groups in organic synthesis; the tetracoordiante amine takes the place of the metal ion in this case, allowing it to disolve in typical organic solvents.

We’re talking about drinking water here. I know it can be attached to any cation. But that doesn’t mean you can ingest it.

The flouride component may not be bad for you… but try to attach it to a lead cation instead of something like sodium.[/quote]

Unless you are about to change the direction of this thread into some discussion of chemistry in industry, why is this an issue? You are getting into areas that would be covered in less than a paragraph in the education of most doctors and dentists. There is a difference between being a medical professional and being a chemical engineer.

37

[quote]Professor X wrote:
brucevangeorge wrote:
lurker26 wrote:
I doesn’t have to be bound to a metal; any cation will do. For example, tetrabutyl ammonium fluoride (TBAF) is commonly used for the removal of silyl ether protecting groups in organic synthesis; the tetracoordiante amine takes the place of the metal ion in this case, allowing it to disolve in typical organic solvents.

We’re talking about drinking water here. I know it can be attached to any cation. But that doesn’t mean you can ingest it.

The flouride component may not be bad for you… but try to attach it to a lead cation instead of something like sodium.

Unless you are about to change the direction of this thread into some discussion of chemistry in industry, why is this an issue? You are getting into areas that would be covered in less than a paragraph in the education of most doctors and dentists. There is a difference between being a medical professional and being a chemical engineer.[/quote]

True story. Appologies for unnecessary information on my part.

38

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Miserere wrote:
I read somewhere that fluoride doesn’t get absorbed into the teeth after the age of 4-6.

I’ve noticed that people who don’t brush their teeth have brown teeth.

But maybe that’s just a conspiratorial coincidence…

What you read about absorption is related to teeth that are still developing. It is those early ages when fluoride is the most benefit to the strength of secondary teeth once they erupt. I can look in someone’s mouth and tell most of the time if they grew up around fluoridated water. After that age, topical treatment is most effective as that found in water serves much less of a purpose through systemic effects. Products like “Act” mouthrinse or topical fluoride from your dentist would help teeth resist cavities.

In other words, fluoridated water is most beneficial to children.

Isnt fluoride like a synthetic version of the naturally occuring flurine?

My understand is that fluoride is good for your teeth, but bad to injest.

I’d really like to know what exactly fluoride is…or how they produce it. By product of some aluminium production…or something. Seems a little far fetched, but you never know.

I’m pretty sure most of Europe is non fluroide. I wonder how that correlates to brown teeth and decay.
[/quote]

we got small pills that dissolved in the mouth, during our first two years in school.

that would be from 6-7 years

39

Isn’t flouride a known Carcinogen?

Are you going to fight for evil?

40

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Unless you are about to change the direction of this thread into some discussion of chemistry in industry, why is this an issue? You are getting into areas that would be covered in less than a paragraph in the education of most doctors and dentists. There is a difference between being a medical professional and being a chemical engineer.[/quote]

As an oral hygiene related aside, how often do you brush and floss Prof?

When I was a kid I was told to do it after every meal, yet this would presumably leave a person gumless in the 6-8 meal per day range.