Flu Shots?

Normally I’m too lazy to get the flu shot and I really don’t know whether the illnesses I’ve had in prior years were the immunized against strains or not. This year fall I got it though before travelling. I’m not sure if it was the flu shot or one of the six others I had that day, but that night I felt about as bad as I’ve felt in a very long time. At this point though, my immune system could probably kick your immune system’s ass.

I’m curious why its injected intra-muscularly. I would imagine it would be a drink or gas you breath in or something (as you would normally get it by ingesting or breathing it in).

Anyone got any ideas?

The immune system doesn’t really give a rat’s ass as how the foreign particles get inside you.

There are some vaccines in pill form that are being tested or that you drink that already exist.

There is a nasal spray version of the flu vaccine, however instead of using ‘‘dead’’ strains of the virus, it uses ‘‘weakened’’ or attenuated live virus, that is why it is only approved for some groups of people.

(If you ‘‘eat/drink’’ the vaccine we need to make sure that some foreing particles would reach the blood stream and not just be digested/destroyed. If that happened, you would not get immunity but would only be protected by your natural barriers, which exist anyways.)

Injections ensures that the vaccine gets into you without being destroyed first, there is no absorption problem.

AlexH

Ya know, I’m gonna leave it at this when it comes down to the world of pharmaceuticals: Why treat symptoms when there are cures for the sources?

I’m getting one, hopefully today after work. For a $25 shot, it’s good insurance. I had the flu a couple of years ago and was sick for four days. I’d rather not lose four days’ pay, which amounts to much, much more than $25. So that is ME being a cheap bastard.

[quote]Dandalex wrote:
If you can read, you should not be asking these questions and pick up an immunology book and realize that your body basically doesn’t give a crap about how it gets to see ‘‘the foreign’’ substance against which to develop an immunity (there are some little exceptions to this)

Secondly, you can get some short flu like symptoms associated to general immune response and are mostly harmless. Various interleukins and growth factors get expressed that may induce these symptomes, often they are an integral part of immunity generation.

Flu vaccines are created with different strains of the virus, one A (H3N2) virus, one A (H1N1) virus, and one B virus. The viruses in the vaccine change each year based on international surveillance and scientists? estimations about which types and strains of viruses will circulate in a given year.

Thus it is only normal that once in a while, the main strain that hits us is not the one we’ve been preparing for.

You see, the anti-vaccination crowd is largely like the anti-meat crowd, different people, same mentality.

For my internship, I have to take it, but would have taken it anyway.

Its kinda funny to realize that some of the arguments raised by people on these forums are the same raised by the villagers in third world countries that don’t understant vaccines. At least we know that developped or not, every country is filled with ignorant people. But the villagers have an excuse, here, they don’t.

AlexH[/quote]

AlexH,

I think you hit on an important point that people often miss. This is born out of the lack of knowledge that people have in terms of what a vaccine is and how it works. As you mentioned in the case of the vaccines available for the influenza virus, new ones are needed each year. This is because the antigen charecteristics of influenza viruses change so rapidly. Scientists monitor year round the developments in protein shell mutation in viruses to try and guess which will be the most prevalent the next season. So sometimes they guess better than others. Sometimes, unforseen changes occur in the protein shell of the virus.

I will grant that there are some people who should not get some kinds of immunization. If you are immuno-compromised (very young, organ transplant recipiant, undergoing chemo-therapy, or have AIDS), then you should not receive a live attenuated virus vaccine.

The only other problems really with vaccines is allergic reaction (if molecular weight of the antigen in greater than 10 000) and unique problems with Rubella (German Measles).

From a public health standpoint, the more people who get a flu shot, the better. Even if you are young and at little risk of serious complications. This is because you can act as a resevoir for the disease and pass it on to those for whome it is potentially life threatening.

The anti-immunization crowd only presents a compelling argument to the uniformed.

[quote]Dandalex wrote:
The immune system doesn’t really give a rat’s ass as how the foreign particles get inside you.

There are some vaccines in pill form that are being tested or that you drink that already exist.

There is a nasal spray version of the flu vaccine, however instead of using ‘‘dead’’ strains of the virus, it uses ‘‘weakened’’ or attenuated live virus, that is why it is only approved for some groups of people.

(If you ‘‘eat/drink’’ the vaccine we need to make sure that some foreing particles would reach the blood stream and not just be digested/destroyed. If that happened, you would not get immunity but would only be protected by your natural barriers, which exist anyways.)

Injections ensures that the vaccine gets into you without being destroyed first, there is no absorption problem.

AlexH[/quote]

AlexH,

The Polio vaccine is a good example of an orally administered vaccine that has been extremely effective. This probably is easier since the Polio virus is an enteric virus to begin with, but I’m not actually sure about that one.

Already had mine.
My company gives them every year,even had one last year. We had them before they got scarce.
I was kind of uneasy when I would hear someone say their grandmother could not get one.
I say get one,can’t hurt may help.
Izzie

Firstpull,

Thanks for picking up the ball,

I had totally forgotten about the reservoir population and the polio vaccine. Two very important things. People seem to always think about themselves or their own little world, nothing new here!

With the number of Health in Developping Countries classes I took, I should be flogged for not remembering those things.

Yeah, I do wonder about the effect of having an PO vaccine because polio is an initially enteric virus. Probably has little to do with, just better compliance for the 3 doses, but interesting nonetheless.

Thanks,
AlexH

[quote]Dandalex wrote:
Firstpull,

Thanks for picking up the ball,

I had totally forgotten about the reservoir population and the polio vaccine. Two very important things. People seem to always think about themselves or their own little world, nothing new here!

With the number of Health in Developping Countries classes I took, I should be flogged for not remembering those things.

Yeah, I do wonder about the effect of having an PO vaccine because polio is an initially enteric virus. Probably has little to do with, just better compliance for the 3 doses, but interesting nonetheless.

Thanks,
AlexH[/quote]

I don’t know if the administration of the Sabin polio vaccine orally is just for compliance, of if it is related to the production of IgA.
The older,Salk polio vaccine did not result in production of IgA and thus even those immunized with this vaccine could still carry the virus in their gut and thus act for a resevoir for the virus and transmit it to others.
I’ll try to find out it the route of administration affects which immunoglobulins are formed.

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
I’m curious why its injected intra-muscularly. I would imagine it would be a drink or gas you breath in or something (as you would normally get it by ingesting or breathing it in).

Anyone got any ideas? [/quote]

To by pass all usual levels of immunity. The lips, mouth, throat, nose, nasal hairs, skin etc etc are all part of your immune system. By giving vaccines intramuscularly, they can be sure to get whatever garbage they want to inject in you without actually improving your immune system one iota. Hence why you can get shots for certain diseases yet still get the disease. How twisted is that?

[quote]bluecollarjock wrote:

dont know if its bad timing or the shot…but I got one last tuesday and come friday through now Ive been sick and have the worst sore throat…wishing I didn’t get it [/quote]

It’s the shot. It’s not uncommon for many people to get sick post a vaccination. But the medical community has somehow justified this. Simply because a great number of people actually get sick right after a shot, they assume it is normal behavior and not something to worry about. They use commonality as the indicator that something is acceptable.

It’s not, plain and simple.

Interesting to note where the endless list of affected people are?

[quote]firstpull wrote:
Dandalex wrote:
If you can read, you should not be asking these questions and pick up an immunology book and realize that your body basically doesn’t give a crap about how it gets to see ‘‘the foreign’’ substance against which to develop an immunity (there are some little exceptions to this)

Secondly, you can get some short flu like symptoms associated to general immune response and are mostly harmless. Various interleukins and growth factors get expressed that may induce these symptomes, often they are an integral part of immunity generation.

Flu vaccines are created with different strains of the virus, one A (H3N2) virus, one A (H1N1) virus, and one B virus. The viruses in the vaccine change each year based on international surveillance and scientists? estimations about which types and strains of viruses will circulate in a given year.

Thus it is only normal that once in a while, the main strain that hits us is not the one we’ve been preparing for.

You see, the anti-vaccination crowd is largely like the anti-meat crowd, different people, same mentality.

For my internship, I have to take it, but would have taken it anyway.

Its kinda funny to realize that some of the arguments raised by people on these forums are the same raised by the villagers in third world countries that don’t understant vaccines. At least we know that developped or not, every country is filled with ignorant people. But the villagers have an excuse, here, they don’t.

AlexH

AlexH,

I think you hit on an important point that people often miss. This is born out of the lack of knowledge that people have in terms of what a vaccine is and how it works. As you mentioned in the case of the vaccines available for the influenza virus, new ones are needed each year. This is because the antigen charecteristics of influenza viruses change so rapidly. Scientists monitor year round the developments in protein shell mutation in viruses to try and guess which will be the most prevalent the next season. So sometimes they guess better than others. Sometimes, unforseen changes occur in the protein shell of the virus.

I will grant that there are some people who should not get some kinds of immunization. If you are immuno-compromised (very young, organ transplant recipiant, undergoing chemo-therapy, or have AIDS), then you should not receive a live attenuated virus vaccine.

The only other problems really with vaccines is allergic reaction (if molecular weight of the antigen in greater than 10 000) and unique problems with Rubella (German Measles).

From a public health standpoint, the more people who get a flu shot, the better. Even if you are young and at little risk of serious complications. This is because you can act as a resevoir for the disease and pass it on to those for whome it is potentially life threatening.

The anti-immunization crowd only presents a compelling argument to the uniformed. [/quote]

“This is because you can act as a resevoir for the disease and pass it on to those for whome it is potentially life threatening”

Getting the flu shot does not change this statement one iota. Please either one of you post a double-blind, placebo-controlled study not paid for by the people that sell the vaccine that conclusively shows its efficacy and need to expose yourself to the virus and mercury based preservatives like thimerosol.