'Flat Bench Press is a Sh**ty Exercise'

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
For me they are. I don’t give a fuck what exercises you do, this thread isn’t for you clearly.[/quote]

I think you’re confused.

I am interested in the reasoning behind why people do different exercises than me. I’m interested in how they train and eat etc. What supplements they take and when they take them. That’s why I joined this forum.

If you don’t care about anyone elses opinion why do you continue to post here? Seems irrelevant unless your only goal is to ramm your own ideas down everyones throats

Though I may be wrong. You may just be an idiot. Sorry

[quote]D Public wrote:
no one is saying not to flat bench…but, people avoid declines for some reason…

decline and dips have scored highest on every EMG I’ve seen for chest activation…in all areas of the chest…so, why avoid it?

here is an emg test done by an author on this site…

also interesting to note…weighted dips scored almost as high in tricep activation as the isolation exercises…

[/quote]

Just because the decline bench has scored the highest on an emg test, doesn’t mean it is necessarily so great from a bodybuilding perspective. I think many lifters prefer incline + flat over decline, because of the fear of building a chest that is too over powering on the lower part. Having boob-like pecs with your collarbone visible sucks… and lets face it, you don’t see nearly as many guys with over developed upper pecs + underdeveloped lower pecs, as you do guys who have lower dominant chests. I think it is the fear that makes many shy away from the decline.

Also, if the decline press truly was the most efficient move for activating the entire chest, then would we really need to do inclines at all? But the fact is, unless you are genetically blessed, inclines are pretty important for developing balanced pecs.

Just some thoughts.

While I only Occasionally do flat work (and always with DB’s at the end of my chest sessions), I certainly don’t think flat benches are an exercise everyone should avoid. Personally, and I get the impression this applies to a lot of trainees, I used to bench a very decent amount of weight on the flat bench, and yet my chest wasn’t very good aesthetically, and my shoulders would get sore (and eventually become an issue). Now some would argue that this is an issue of individual biomechanics, while others might suggest less than textbook form. While I did eventually move away from heavy bench work, and my chest did certainly improve, I also witnessed others (my brother for example - who has a much different body frame than I do, 6’0, with a very wide wingspan) who stayed with flat bench work and improved as well.

There has been a good amount of writing concerning the muscle activation of slight decline work to flat benching (which made a lot of sense to me), as well as the anatomical argument, where you look at the natural arc of the arms and the chest muscles’ “function” (to reuse the term from above). As someone who was naturally arm dominant (my delts and arms were always pretty decent), employing various angles as well as a pre-exhaust approach at times has allowed me to make much more progress in the terms of BODYBUILDING than I believe I would have had I dogmatically stayed with doing heavy Flat work (although I’m sure my weights would have continued to climb,… it wasn’t my goal <-everyone noticed my rationalization here,… MY goal!)

Obviously, everyone should choose what they feel is working for them, in terms of their physique (or performance) goals. Sticking blindly to an exercise (or even avoiding it) because it worked (or didn’t) for someone else is just ridiculous. Sure, there’s the ever present point of how most pec tears occur during flat work, but there’s some danger present in just about any exercise you can do in the gym, especially once your strength starts going up.

S

[quote]D Public wrote:
no one is saying not to flat bench…but, people avoid declines for some reason…

decline and dips have scored highest on every EMG I’ve seen for chest activation…in all areas of the chest…so, why avoid it?

here is an emg test done by an author on this site…

also interesting to note…weighted dips scored almost as high in tricep activation as the isolation exercises…

[/quote]
I really dont rate EMG tests for bodybuilding purposes.
I’m sorry but people have tried to tell me that inclines are no better for upperchest than flat bench because they have nearly the same activation on an EMG, yet how many people including me have focused on inclines and noticed improvement on upper chest?

Some of those EMG scores in that series of articles where also conflicting with other findings I’ve seen from actual research articles. There is too much variability, maybe in years to come when you can compare a large number of EMG studies we can more confidently say one exercise is better than another but right now I dont think its reliable.

Having said that I love doing dip for triceps and sometimes for chest, and even though I dont use them The extra weight you can use for decline might offer some benefits.

I have no problem with people not doing bench or saying other things might be better, but to say its a shitty exercise is crap. I dont want the bench press to be the next exercise that people avoid because they read somewhere that “its bad”, just like so many people dont do squats cause “the’re bad for your knees” or deadlift cause “the’re bad for your back”.

hs decline works my upper chest better than bb incline lol…

that being said…i’m not syaing just do decline movements…Who does 1 chest exercise? i personally do all 3 variations…

but in the end, chest shape is genetic despite what you want to believe…most people with “overdeveloped lower chest” are just carrying fat there…when you get into contest condition, you realize just how much chest you actually have…

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
I stick to what I’ve said before; till someone has actually started to develop a chest and started to develop strength in the flat movement (3 plates) I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about the usefulness or lack thereof of the flat bench for chest development (or tricep/shoulder dominance). The fundamental movement recruits all the important muscles.

It is such a blamed exercise because so many people ONLY do flat bench for the chest and end up with various issues. More often than not aggravation on the flat is symptomatic of OTHER issues that need to be addressed.

So many people get on this site, see a thread like this, and end up trying to do something like 10 exercises for chest without focussing on anything and getting any progression.

Give it 5 years when everyone doing low incline/decline bench start complaining of all the same issues.

[/quote]

So you think flat barbell pressing is the only way to measure progression for chest training?

I havent flat bench pressed in years. ANd I probably cant bench press 315. My chest is much better than yours. I see no reason to flat barbell bench press. My chest doesnt grow from it. Ive never had an injury or gotten pain from it.

You said that someone should actually start developing a chest before guaging how effecting flat benching is. Do you not see how retarded that is. NOT EVERYONE GROWS THEIR PECS FROM IT. Do you see how circular the logic is in what you said there?

Maybe YOU should try something else to measure progression in besides flat barbell benching.

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

We’re trying to bodybuild, not powerlift.

It doesn’t matter if you bench 315 or 135, some people’s bad habits/physiology/psychology/whatever prevents them from stressing their chest with a flat bench press. Sure it gets worked, and sure you’ll put on muscle on your way to a 315 bench, but if heavy flyes or decline works the target muscle better, why beat a dead horse?

[/quote]

Don’t quote random rhetoric thrown around on this site. Inferring my post was about powerlifting vs bodybuilding is idiotic.

When it comes to fly exercise, I am yet to meet, or see anyone on this site who has a great chest from doing flys. All well and good the guys with big chests who are using flys more for ongoing development, but as a primary exercise I’m still doubtful.

I have no issue with decline or incline pressing. Don’t be a fanboy with comprehension issues. I am completely against blanket statements that the flat bench is a shitty exercise when there really is little concrete proof that this is true.

I have been in so many gyms where every clown (on bench press Monday) wastes their time doing 5 different pressing variations, then get into the multistation to do their million crossovers.

And yes, it does matter if someone is benching 135 or 315. Someone benching 135 can’t comment on what is and isn’t a good exercise for their chest development; they don’t have one yet.

[/quote]

Obviously not a member of this site. Cedric McMillan. 70% of his chest routine is fly movements.

You are against blanket statements that the flat bench press is bad but you are also making a blaket statement that the flat press ISNT bad. It doesnt work like that. Some things legitimately dont work for SOME people.

And again, your statement about flat pressing strenght is absurd. Someone who doesnt recruit their pecs from flat benching wont see much of a difference in their pecs regardless of how much theyre flat benching. THats how bodybuilding works. THe brain doesnt know that flat bench is a chest exercise. THe brain knows when certain muscles are being recruited. Your biceps grow from bicep curls because the muscle fibers in the biceps get recruited, not because theyre called ‘bicep’ curls.

Without the intention of putting him on the spot. HolyMac. Strong guy. Has a good bench press. Something in the 350+ range. Subpar pecs. His triceps are HUGE. Guess who’s not relying on flat bench press to build his pecs? So he met the strength requirement but didnt have the pec development requirement. ZOMG. Seriously, there are countless examples of this sort of thing, for various exercises. Saying that someone needs to reach a certain strength level before judging the effectiveness of a movement is dumb.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
While I only Occasionally do flat work (and always with DB’s at the end of my chest sessions), I certainly don’t think flat benches are an exercise everyone should avoid. Personally, and I get the impression this applies to a lot of trainees, I used to bench a very decent amount of weight on the flat bench, and yet my chest wasn’t very good aesthetically, and my shoulders would get sore (and eventually become an issue). Now some would argue that this is an issue of individual biomechanics, while others might suggest less than textbook form. While I did eventually move away from heavy bench work, and my chest did certainly improve, I also witnessed others (my brother for example - who has a much different body frame than I do, 6’0, with a very wide wingspan) who stayed with flat bench work and improved as well.

There has been a good amount of writing concerning the muscle activation of slight decline work to flat benching (which made a lot of sense to me), as well as the anatomical argument, where you look at the natural arc of the arms and the chest muscles’ “function” (to reuse the term from above). As someone who was naturally arm dominant (my delts and arms were always pretty decent), employing various angles as well as a pre-exhaust approach at times has allowed me to make much more progress in the terms of BODYBUILDING than I believe I would have had I dogmatically stayed with doing heavy Flat work (although I’m sure my weights would have continued to climb,… it wasn’t my goal <-everyone noticed my rationalization here,… MY goal!)

Obviously, everyone should choose what they feel is working for them, in terms of their physique (or performance) goals. Sticking blindly to an exercise (or even avoiding it) because it worked (or didn’t) for someone else is just ridiculous. Sure, there’s the ever present point of how most pec tears occur during flat work, but there’s some danger present in just about any exercise you can do in the gym, especially once your strength starts going up.

S[/quote]

Logic. Logic. Stu just STOP it. Err’ body know yous’ a mofuckin’ monsta!!

What about reverse grip bench presses? I know it’s supposed to activate more upper chest, but it seems like an unnatural movement for the shoulder joint under load. Anybody seen long-term outcomes from this excercise being used on a regular basis?

I’ve signed up here after reading this discussion. I feel that I have reached a plateau with my chest. And I’m going to try leaving flat bench press out. I may do a couple of light sets at the start perhaps.

[quote]bobbyp wrote:
I’ve signed up here after reading this discussion. I feel that I have reached a plateau with my chest. And I’m going to try leaving flat bench press out. I may do a couple of light sets at the start perhaps.

[/quote]

Reaching a plateau and not getting pec stimulation from flat barbell bench pressing are two very different things.

[quote]bobbyp wrote:
I’ve signed up here after reading this discussion. I feel that I have reached a plateau with my chest. And I’m going to try leaving flat bench press out. I may do a couple of light sets at the start perhaps.

[/quote]

I love the smell of a flaming in the morning

I think a good strong arch in one’s back can help activate the lower pecs more in a flat bench press. I used Decline for a long time (primarily because it was much easier to lift big weight/vanity). Once I developed stronger arch in my back (think wrestling bridge) and really pull my shoulder blades together, I could almost get the same amount of weight, and activate similar muscle groups. For me, a good flat bench with shoulders and ass pinned to the bench, but my lower back arched, allows for similar gains.

[quote]bobbyp wrote:
I’ve signed up here after reading this discussion. I feel that I have reached a plateau with my chest. And I’m going to try leaving flat bench press out. I may do a couple of light sets at the start perhaps.
[/quote]

Try training legs too.

[quote]Sir Liftsalot wrote:
What about reverse grip bench presses? I know it’s supposed to activate more upper chest, but it seems like an unnatural movement for the shoulder joint under load. Anybody seen long-term outcomes from this excercise being used on a regular basis?[/quote]

I find it much easier on my shoulders, and shoulder strain is one of the reasons I ditched regular flat bench.

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
I stick to what I’ve said before; till someone has actually started to develop a chest and started to develop strength in the flat movement (3 plates) I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about the usefulness or lack thereof of the flat bench for chest development (or tricep/shoulder dominance). The fundamental movement recruits all the important muscles.

It is such a blamed exercise because so many people ONLY do flat bench for the chest and end up with various issues. More often than not aggravation on the flat is symptomatic of OTHER issues that need to be addressed.

So many people get on this site, see a thread like this, and end up trying to do something like 10 exercises for chest without focussing on anything and getting any progression.

Give it 5 years when everyone doing low incline/decline bench start complaining of all the same issues.

[/quote]

I’m a huge fan of the flat bench but I’m not sure its the best for Pec development. I move 3 plus plates on chest day but I think the problem with the Bench is that it recruits too many muscles.

To really focus on pec development I have to lower the weight to 225/275lbs to reduce my delt and tricep involvment and focus on how I move the weight. That’s not to say I don’t continue to use the bench - because my goal is on overall size and less on pec development. However, after solid bench work I use H/S machines and dumbells or cables to focus on the muscle.

im 5’9,shortish arms,wide chest&long torso so you can say I could be a bencher,
having done for years just flat bench I can say that my chest was wide,maybe strong, but flat (flat compare to my delts&arms).
and my chest remained flat until I did not com here,on T-Nation, and read something about EMG activation during flat/incline/decline bench,read some post about someone (Stu?)who trhowed the flat bench out of window and started to grow just with decline/incline.
I did the same and noticed 3 “strange” things:

1/my upper (clavicular) chest started to grow even if I do ,most of sessions,(slightly) DEclined press like first excercise
2/I can bench more on (slightly)DEcline that on flat bench.
3/my chest get more worked (both in terms of “pumping” that pain contraction) from DEcline than flat.
This could be easily explained because my front delts are stronger than my chest and (slighlty) DEclined bench don’t involve them too much in pressing like flat…

about pre-exhaution routine (JOnes,Menzter); I have done it in the past, not just for few sessions, but it never worked for me; I suppose because I used pre-exhaust but on flat bench.
Will see if changed the angle of the bench it works…

about stretch-marks on chest (because of flies) like a sign of hypertrophy; I had the first stretch when I was 17,doing heavy (for me at that time)flat flies with ,my chest become marked but still flat…

to GG who says that if you can bench more than 300lb you can’t have a flat chest I reply that I benched more and…my chest remained flat (no offence intended to GG).
futher more,one of my uncles is little bit older than me,we are very similar both in faces than body and he benched raw (in tournament) 410lb at 200lb bodyweight, his chest is flat…
about heavy bencher with flat chest; Roberto P. ,is one of my powercasting folks, he’s very strong, did 500 BP at 240BW,when we met at powercasting tourno he shows a wide chest very flat (but delts&triceps well built).

Obviously,this is just my experience with flat bench and ,more obviously, it is different from others as objective reality is just an illusion.
I’m glad ,however, than others like me throwed flat bench out of window :slight_smile:

peace.

[quote]D Public wrote:
hs decline works my upper chest better than bb incline lol…

that being said…i’m not syaing just do decline movements…Who does 1 chest exercise? i personally do all 3 variations…

but in the end, chest shape is genetic despite what you want to believe…most people with “overdeveloped lower chest” are just carrying fat there…when you get into contest condition, you realize just how much chest you actually have…
[/quote]

Yeah man, I’m just saying I think for many its a psychological thing, thats all.

Interestingly, I think it was Phil Hernon who said something along the lines of the incline barbell press being useless, and that he was a strong advocate of the decline press. I THINK it was him. Someone who knows more please chime in lol.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
I stick to what I’ve said before; till someone has actually started to develop a chest and started to develop strength in the flat movement (3 plates) I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about the usefulness or lack thereof of the flat bench for chest development (or tricep/shoulder dominance). The fundamental movement recruits all the important muscles.

It is such a blamed exercise because so many people ONLY do flat bench for the chest and end up with various issues. More often than not aggravation on the flat is symptomatic of OTHER issues that need to be addressed.

So many people get on this site, see a thread like this, and end up trying to do something like 10 exercises for chest without focussing on anything and getting any progression.

Give it 5 years when everyone doing low incline/decline bench start complaining of all the same issues.

[/quote]

So you think flat barbell pressing is the only way to measure progression for chest training?

I havent flat bench pressed in years. ANd I probably cant bench press 315. My chest is much better than yours. I see no reason to flat barbell bench press. My chest doesnt grow from it. Ive never had an injury or gotten pain from it.

You said that someone should actually start developing a chest before guaging how effecting flat benching is. Do you not see how retarded that is. NOT EVERYONE GROWS THEIR PECS FROM IT. Do you see how circular the logic is in what you said there?

Maybe YOU should try something else to measure progression in besides flat barbell benching. [/quote]

Hi. U R amazin’.

If flat barbell bench press works for you then do it. If you aren’t getting the results you want then try incline/decline/flyes/HS etc. It may be a bad exercise for some while others it works wonders for chest/shoulders/tricep development.