T Nation

Flameout Alternative?

i am a long time reader, first time poster…

i have been using country life’s version of fish oil, and it seems to have the same concentration of DHA/EPA as Flameout. Taking 8 pills a day, or 2 at a time, 4 times daily, will give you 2000mg DHA, and 800mg EPA, daily. This is very close to the amount in Flameout and the pills are small, about half the size of regular fish oil pills. for about 10 bucks you get 120 pills, or 15 days worth, so basically 20 bucks for a month supply.

The only thing lacking is CLA. which is why i am buying Flameout

I just ordered my first batch of Flameout and i cant wait to compare to these pills.

has anyone else used these that has also taken Flameout and can compare?

here is the link

www.country-life.com/moreinfo.cfm?Category=9&Product_ID=150

Wait… Taking 8 pills/4 times a day?? Thats 32 pills a day to get the same amount of actives as Flameout’s 4 pill dose. Not exactly the same concentration.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Wait… Taking 8 pills/4 times a day?? Thats 32 pills a day to get the same amount of actives as Flameout’s 4 pill dose. Not exactly the same concentration.[/quote]

Its 8 pills a day or 2 pills 4 times per day, which is still 8.

Per pill,

Flameout Other brand
DHA 550 mg 250 mg
EPA 220 mg 100 mg

So the other brand is basically like every other brand in terms of concentration (it usually overs around 300 mg in a 180/120 DHA/EPA mix)

So its just about under half the overall concentration (770 vs 350).

You therefore have to take a bit more than twice the amount of pills with the associated increase in other fats that come in the pill to reach the same total dose.

Some people can do with the CLA, other prefer not to have it.

But on a personal note, I think the Flameout shark looks awesome.

AlexH

[quote]Dandalex wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Wait… Taking 8 pills/4 times a day?? Thats 32 pills a day to get the same amount of actives as Flameout’s 4 pill dose. Not exactly the same concentration.

Its 8 pills a day or 2 pills 4 times per day, which is still 8.

Per pill,

Flameout Other brand
DHA 550 mg 250 mg
EPA 220 mg 100 mg

So the other brand is basically like every other brand in terms of concentration (it usually overs around 300 mg in a 180/120 DHA/EPA mix)

So its just about under half the overall concentration (770 vs 350).

You therefore have to take a bit more than twice the amount of pills with the associated increase in other fats that come in the pill to reach the same total dose.

Some people can do with the CLA, other prefer not to have it.

But on a personal note, I think the Flameout shark looks awesome.

AlexH
[/quote]

this is true, the only difference is the pills are literally half the size, so taking two is really like taking one…

2 small pills equals 1000mg, which is the dosage of one large pill of most generic fish oil brands and contains twice as much DHA/EPA, so while it may not be as good as Flameout, its still better than the average fish oil

Taking Flameout is EXACTLY the same thing as taking any combination of pills to get the same amount of EPA, DHA, and CLA. BUT, I don’t know of any other brand with the same concentration, so you have to take many more pills.

Just buy Flameout! it’s back in stock now anyway…

These pills are half the size, hence per 1000mg we have 500-200 vs 550-220 (CL vs Flameout: DHA-EPA) which is only 10% difference. There is some advantage to smaller pills - I’m still not used to 1000mg pills.

[quote]Dandalex wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Wait… Taking 8 pills/4 times a day?? Thats 32 pills a day to get the same amount of actives as Flameout’s 4 pill dose. Not exactly the same concentration.

Its 8 pills a day or 2 pills 4 times per day, which is still 8.

Per pill,

Flameout Other brand
DHA 550 mg 250 mg
EPA 220 mg 100 mg

So the other brand is basically like every other brand in terms of concentration (it usually overs around 300 mg in a 180/120 DHA/EPA mix)

So its just about under half the overall concentration (770 vs 350).

You therefore have to take a bit more than twice the amount of pills with the associated increase in other fats that come in the pill to reach the same total dose.

Some people can do with the CLA, other prefer not to have it.

But on a personal note, I think the Flameout shark looks awesome.

AlexH
[/quote]

You obviously haven’t read what TC wrote about Flameout. Supplements like country life are made from squeezed fishguts and contain fish oils which can contain impurities like heavy metals (ie mercury).

Flameout is not fish oil. The ingredients are pure, not an extract.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
You obviously haven’t read what TC wrote about Flameout. Supplements like country life are made from squeezed fishguts and contain fish oils which can contain impurities like heavy metals (ie mercury).

Flameout is not fish oil. The ingredients are pure, not an extract.[/quote]

i obviously have read what he said since i bought 2 bottles of Flameout today, and 2 for my dad, just wanted to talk about a supplement that i have not seen discussed here before

[quote]skor wrote:
There is some advantage to smaller pills - I’m still not used to 1000mg pills.
[/quote]

The Flameout! softgels are at least 1400mg each.

They are by far the biggest SGs I have ever seen let alone taken.

I bought Carlson Labs Super-DHA and some Tonalin.

I take 6-1000mg SGs versus 4-1500mg SGs.

Well I know this question is going to get me some flak, but what is the best alternative to Flameout? Being in Canada, and even worse Alberta I cant really order any Biotest supps. Right now I’m using the Walmart brand but thinking of changing to Costco brand jsut for cost. Also I know this isnt the place to ask this but does anyone know if Biotest will ship to a hotel?

Man, you are correct! It means Flameout is LESS concentrated that CL supps. Comparable, but less. Plus, I’m sure that CL is free of heavy metals. I know fish oil from Trader Joe’s is.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
skor wrote:
There is some advantage to smaller pills - I’m still not used to 1000mg pills.

The Flameout! softgels are at least 1400mg each.

They are by far the biggest SGs I have ever seen let alone taken.

I bought Carlson Labs Super-DHA and some Tonalin.

I take 6-1000mg SGs versus 4-1500mg SGs.

[/quote]

[quote]skor wrote:
Man, you are correct! It means Flameout is LESS concentrated that CL supps. Comparable, but less. Plus, I’m sure that CL is free of heavy metals. I know fish oil from Trader Joe’s is.

Marmadogg wrote:
skor wrote:
There is some advantage to smaller pills - I’m still not used to 1000mg pills.

The Flameout! softgels are at least 1400mg each.

They are by far the biggest SGs I have ever seen let alone taken.

I bought Carlson Labs Super-DHA and some Tonalin.

I take 6-1000mg SGs versus 4-1500mg SGs.

[/quote]

Flameout is still cheaper.

[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
skor wrote:
Man, you are correct! It means Flameout is LESS concentrated that CL supps. Comparable, but less. Plus, I’m sure that CL is free of heavy metals. I know fish oil from Trader Joe’s is.

Marmadogg wrote:
skor wrote:
There is some advantage to smaller pills - I’m still not used to 1000mg pills.

The Flameout! softgels are at least 1400mg each.

They are by far the biggest SGs I have ever seen let alone taken.

I bought Carlson Labs Super-DHA and some Tonalin.

I take 6-1000mg SGs versus 4-1500mg SGs.

Flameout is still cheaper.[/quote]

Wrong.

False. Flameout if 37c/gram of EPA/DHA, while CL is 24c/gram (if it’s $10 for 120 500mg pills).

And just FYI:
If fish oil is so great, why shouldn?t everyone take supplements?

? The decreased ability of the blood to clot, which helps prevent heart attacks, has a negative side, notably an increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke. People with bleeding disorders, those taking anticoagulants, and those with uncontrolled hypertension should not take fish oil supplements.

? Large doses of fish oil may suppress the immune system. Thus, supplements may be risky for those with weakened immune systems. What?s a "large dose"? One definition is 3 grams or more a day, but no one really knows what the cutoff point is.

? Large doses can increase glucose levels in people with diabetes.

? Large doses can cause nausea, diarrhea, belching, and a bad taste in the mouth.

? The supplements may contain contaminants and may not contain the labeled dose. A recent test by Consumer Reports of top-selling supplements was reassuring on both counts, even for the least expensive brands, but that doesn?t mean that the next batches will be okay?or that other brands on the market are. Last year a test by ConsumerLab.com found no detectable levels of mercury in 20 fish-oil supplements, but did find that some brands didn?t contain the labeled amounts of omega-3s.

[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
Flameout is still cheaper.[/quote]

[quote]skor wrote:
False. Flameout if 37c/gram of EPA/DHA, while CL is 24c/gram (if it’s $10 for 120 500mg pills).

And just FYI:
If fish oil is so great, why shouldn?t everyone take supplements?

? The decreased ability of the blood to clot, which helps prevent heart attacks, has a negative side, notably an increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke. People with bleeding disorders, those taking anticoagulants, and those with uncontrolled hypertension should not take fish oil supplements.

? Large doses of fish oil may suppress the immune system. Thus, supplements may be risky for those with weakened immune systems. What?s a "large dose"? One definition is 3 grams or more a day, but no one really knows what the cutoff point is.

? Large doses can increase glucose levels in people with diabetes.

? Large doses can cause nausea, diarrhea, belching, and a bad taste in the mouth.

? The supplements may contain contaminants and may not contain the labeled dose. A recent test by Consumer Reports of top-selling supplements was reassuring on both counts, even for the least expensive brands, but that doesn?t mean that the next batches will be okay?or that other brands on the market are. Last year a test by ConsumerLab.com found no detectable levels of mercury in 20 fish-oil supplements, but did find that some brands didn?t contain the labeled amounts of omega-3s.

hockechamp14 wrote:
Flameout is still cheaper.

[/quote]

interesting, what are your sources on this?

[quote]skor wrote:
False. Flameout if 37c/gram of EPA/DHA, while CL is 24c/gram (if it’s $10 for 120 500mg pills).

And just FYI:
If fish oil is so great, why shouldn?t everyone take supplements?

[/quote]

Alot of stuff I have read about Omega3 supplements have been along the lines of what Flameout claims to be able to do.

Google scholar is our friend:

Omega-3 fatty acids in health and disease and in growth and development

AP Simopoulos

Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009.

Several sources of information suggest that man evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids of approximately 1 whereas today this ratio is approximately 10:1 to 20-25:1, indicating that Western diets are deficient in omega 3 fatty acids compared with the diet on which humans evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Omega-3 fatty acids increase bleeding time; decrease platelet aggregation, blood viscosity, and fibrinogen; and increase erythrocyte deformability, thus decreasing the tendency to thrombus formation. In no clinical trial, including coronary artery graft surgery, has there been any evidence of increased blood loss due to ingestion of omega 3 fatty acids. Many studies show that the effects of omega 3 fatty acids on serum lipids depend on the type of patient and whether the amount of saturated fatty acids in the diet is held constant. In patients with hyperlipidemia, omega 3 fatty acids decrease low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol if the saturated fatty acid content is decreased, otherwise there is a slight increase, but at high doses (32 g) they lower LDL cholesterol; furthermore, they consistently lower serum triglycerides in normal subjects and in patients with hypertriglyceridemia whereas the effect on high-density lipoprotein (HDL) varies from no effect to slight increases. The discrepancies between animal and human studies most likely are due to differences between animal and human metabolism. In clinical trials eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in the form of fish oils along with antirheumatic drugs improve joint pain in patients with rheumatoid arthritis; have a beneficial effect in patients with ulcerative colitis; and in combination with drugs, improve the skin lesions, lower the hyperlipidemia from etretinates, and decrease the toxicity of cyclosporin in patients with psoriasis. In various animal models omega 3 fatty acids decrease the number and size of tumors and increase the time elapsed before appearance of tumors. Studies with nonhuman primates and human newborns indicate that DHA is essential for the normal functional development of the retina and brain, particularly in premature infants. Because omega 3 fatty acids are essential in growth and development throughout the life cycle, they should be included in the diets of all humans. Omega-3 and omega 6 fatty acids are not interconvertible in the human body and are important components of practically all cell membranes. Whereas cellular proteins are genetically determined, the polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) composition of cell membranes is to a great extent dependent on the dietary intake.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)


Omega-3 Fatty Acids in Inflammation and Autoimmune Diseases
Artemis P. Simopoulos, MD, FACN

The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, D.C

Address correspondence to: Artemis P. Simopoulos, M.D., FACN, The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, 2001 S Street, N.W., Suite 530, Washington, D.C., 20009. E-mail: cgnh@bellatlantic.net

Among the fatty acids, it is the omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) which possess the most potent immunomodulatory activities, and among the omega-3 PUFA, those from fish oil?eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)?are more biologically potent than -linolenic acid (ALA). Some of the effects of omega-3 PUFA are brought about by modulation of the amount and types of eicosanoids made, and other effects are elicited by eicosanoid-independent mechanisms, including actions upon intracellular signaling pathways, transcription factor activity and gene expression. Animal experiments and clinical intervention studies indicate that omega-3 fatty acids have anti-inflammatory properties and, therefore, might be useful in the management of inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. Coronary heart disease, major depression, aging and cancer are characterized by an increased level of interleukin 1 (IL-1), a proinflammatory cytokine. Similarly, arthritis, Crohn?s disease, ulcerative colitis and lupus erythematosis are autoimmune diseases characterized by a high level of IL-1 and the proinflammatory leukotriene LTB4 produced by omega-6 fatty acids. There have been a number of clinical trials assessing the benefits of dietary supplementation with fish oils in several inflammatory and autoimmune diseases in humans, including rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn?s disease, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, lupus erythematosus, multiple sclerosis and migraine headaches. Many of the placebo-controlled trials of fish oil in chronic inflammatory diseases reveal significant benefit, including decreased disease activity and a lowered use of anti-inflammatory drugs.

[quote]skor wrote:
False. Flameout if 37c/gram of EPA/DHA, while CL is 24c/gram (if it’s $10 for 120 500mg pills).

And just FYI:
If fish oil is so great, why shouldn?t everyone take supplements?

? The decreased ability of the blood to clot, which helps prevent heart attacks, has a negative side, notably an increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke. People with bleeding disorders, those taking anticoagulants, and those with uncontrolled hypertension should not take fish oil supplements.

? Large doses of fish oil may suppress the immune system. Thus, supplements may be risky for those with weakened immune systems. What?s a "large dose"? One definition is 3 grams or more a day, but no one really knows what the cutoff point is.

? Large doses can increase glucose levels in people with diabetes.

? Large doses can cause nausea, diarrhea, belching, and a bad taste in the mouth.

? The supplements may contain contaminants and may not contain the labeled dose. A recent test by Consumer Reports of top-selling supplements was reassuring on both counts, even for the least expensive brands, but that doesn?t mean that the next batches will be okay?or that other brands on the market are. Last year a test by ConsumerLab.com found no detectable levels of mercury in 20 fish-oil supplements, but did find that some brands didn?t contain the labeled amounts of omega-3s.

hockechamp14 wrote:
Flameout is still cheaper.

[/quote]

I dont know where you get your info, but fish oil is good for you, they have been using it for years, since the 50’s and 60’s if not way before that. Read what your telling us:

" A recent test by Consumer Reports of top-selling supplements was reassuring on both counts, even for the least expensive brands, but that doesn?t mean that the next batches will be okay?"

So you are saying its not credible that it was reassuring on both counts?
They tested them, and you are saying well maybe the next batches wont be accurate? No legitimate proof behind what you are saying. Also:

" Last year a test by ConsumerLab.com found no detectable levels of mercury in 20 fish-oil supplements"

Dude, this means there was no mercury, its called science.

[quote]skor wrote:
False. Flameout if 37c/gram of EPA/DHA, while CL is 24c/gram (if it’s $10 for 120 500mg pills).[/quote]

Since when was Flameout! created for EPA+DHA content?

Re-read the article and get back to me.

“It’s (Flameout!) the first one designed with men in mind, containing a much higher amount of DHA than EPA.”

Not EPA + DHA…

Linky for your reading pleasure:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=910074