I found another issue that I disagree with the Republicans on - flag burning. I personally could not think of a reason that I would burn the flag other than disposal. It is hypocritical to me to hold the flag in such high regard and then try to make a law against burning it.
Me Solomon Grundy
[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
I found another issue that I disagree with the Republicans on?flag burning. I personally could not think of a reason that I would burn the flag other than disposal. It is hypocritical to me to hold the flag in such high regard and then try to make a law against burning it.
Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]
Is this true that’s gonna happen?
Ha ha… The only people that burn flags on purpose tend to be people that see themselves as enemies of whichever country’s flag is being burnt.
Subsequently you give over power to said parties when you make a point of saying ‘you cannot burn this flag’ because there’s nothing you can do to stop them and now they know how much it aggravates so will do it double.
At a personal level, I had an England flag as a table cloth for the start of the World Cup but it got covered in booze so I threw it out. Certainly doesn’t make me any less patriotic - It’s just a piece of material until you imbue it with some power it doesn’t have.
What about a pen with a picture of the flag on it? Can you destroy it when it’s finished or of it runs? Absurd. It’s these sorts of things that make me long for less government and less inteference in my everyday life. I’ll take my chances with the criminals and whatnot if they’d just sod off and stay out of my business.
It is not the place of a Government to tell you and enforce what a flag means to you. V strange…
[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
I found another issue that I disagree with the Republicans on?flag burning. I personally could not think of a reason that I would burn the flag other than disposal. It is hypocritical to me to hold the flag in such high regard and then try to make a law against burning it.
Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]
I think it is morally wrong to forbid flag burning, because the American flag stands fo the freedom to voice your opinion, even by burning an American flag.
Such a law is a harder blow against what the flag stands for than burning it could ever be.
Try to see it positive, when they burned the Austrian embassy they burned a Danish and French flag…
At least people know what your flag looks like…
Unprepared, lazy, bastards…
[quote]orion wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
I found another issue that I disagree with the Republicans on?flag burning. I personally could not think of a reason that I would burn the flag other than disposal. It is hypocritical to me to hold the flag in such high regard and then try to make a law against burning it.
Me Solomon Grundy
I think it is morally wrong to forbid flag burning, because the American flag stands fo the freedom to voice your opinion, even by burning an American flag.
Such a law is a harder blow against what the flag stands for than burning it could ever be.
Try to see it positive, when they burned the Austrian embassy they burned a Danish and French flag…
At least people know what your flag looks like…
Unprepared, lazy, bastards…[/quote]
lol
I always wondered if there was one factory in the middle-east that specifically produced highly flammable American flags for burning. Otherwise, where are they getting them all from?
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
I found another issue that I disagree with the Republicans on?flag burning. I personally could not think of a reason that I would burn the flag other than disposal. It is hypocritical to me to hold the flag in such high regard and then try to make a law against burning it.
Me Solomon Grundy
Is this true that’s gonna happen?
Ha ha… The only people that burn flags on purpose tend to be people that see themselves as enemies of whichever country’s flag is being burnt.
Subsequently you give over power to said parties when you make a point of saying ‘you cannot burn this flag’ because there’s nothing you can do to stop them and now they know how much it aggravates so will do it double.
At a personal level, I had an England flag as a table cloth for the start of the World Cup but it got covered in booze so I threw it out. Certainly doesn’t make me any less patriotic - It’s just a piece of material until you imbue it with some power it doesn’t have.
What about a pen with a picture of the flag on it? Can you destroy it when it’s finished or of it runs? Absurd. It’s these sorts of things that make me long for less government and less inteference in my everyday life. I’ll take my chances with the criminals and whatnot if they’d just sod off and stay out of my business.
It is not the place of a Government to tell you and enforce what a flag means to you. V strange…
[/quote]
The Republicans keep bring this up. I think this is the third time. Each time the vote gets closer. This time they missed by one vote. I think they only brought it up this time because it is an election year. There are to many other things they should be working on.
Me Solomon Grundy
Well, you know me, of course I worry about it from a different perspective…
It’s just the end process of the diefication of objects and traditions. We need to not diefy inanimate objects or concepts and keep people as the more important issue.
If people were more important than the bible or the koran we wouldn’t have had all the abuses we’ve had over time.
Perhaps.
Anyway, a flag is cloth with stars and stripes. Sure, it stirs emotions and stands for things, but every one of us has the ability to let go and recognize that in the end it is still cloth with colors on it.
I mean, I can get misty for the Canadian flag, don’t get me wrong, but in the end, I’d rather people were burning the flag than killing people.
[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
The Republicans keep bring this up. I think this is the third time. Each time the vote gets closer. This time they missed by one vote. I think they only brought it up this time because it is an election year. There are to many other things they should be working on.
Me Solomon Grundy[/quote]
Pshaw, everyone knows that the Supreme Court would rule such an amendment unconstitutional!
A political science professor told me so.
i dont agree with the flag burning amendment…but i dont agree with the cross burning laws either
Keep free speech free.
[quote]Diomede wrote:
i dont agree with the flag burning amendment…but i dont agree with the cross burning laws either
Keep free speech free.[/quote]
USSC already ruled that Virginia’s cross-burning laws were unconstitutional as prima-facia bans on a particular expression.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Well, you know me, of course I worry about it from a different perspective…
It’s just the end process of the diefication of objects and traditions. We need to not diefy inanimate objects or concepts and keep people as the more important issue.
If people were more important than the bible or the koran we wouldn’t have had all the abuses we’ve had over time.
Perhaps.
Anyway, a flag is cloth with stars and stripes. Sure, it stirs emotions and stands for things, but every one of us has the ability to let go and recognize that in the end it is still cloth with colors on it.
I mean, I can get misty for the Canadian flag, don’t get me wrong, but in the end, I’d rather people were burning the flag than killing people.[/quote]
Yeah, what he said. Unless said people are ever mean to me. Or if they smell. Or are on Big Brother.
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
At a personal level, I had an England flag as a table cloth for the start of the World Cup but it got covered in booze so I threw it out. Certainly doesn’t make me any less patriotic - It’s just a piece of material until you imbue it with some power it doesn’t have.
[/quote]
I was listening to this prog on radio 4 on the way back from this place, GreyPaul in Nottingham, and they were discussing what it means to be patritoic in the UK.
They started off talking about how the English Flag was supposedly offensive to many because it was a symbol of the crusades which made George Bush’s antics look like a Chimps Tea Party. Then they mentioned St. George was the patron saint of Syphillis and so on and so on.
Most of the people on the show were not of English or British heritage, but Jewish immigrants third generation, Indian heritage or Spanish (Michael Portillo) and they ended up basically summarising saying that people who were flying the flag (for footy) had no idea it stood for racism, bigotry and domination and it has serious undertones.
That’s how bad its got…at least down at the BBC.
[quote]Meddyg Stigg wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
At a personal level, I had an England flag as a table cloth for the start of the World Cup but it got covered in booze so I threw it out. Certainly doesn’t make me any less patriotic - It’s just a piece of material until you imbue it with some power it doesn’t have.
I was listening to this prog on radio 4 on the way back from this place, GreyPaul in Nottingham, and they were discussing what it means to be patritoic in the UK.
They started off talking about how the English Flag was supposedly offensive to many because it was a symbol of the crusades which made George Bush’s antics look like a Chimps Tea Party. Then they mentioned St. George was the patron saint of Syphillis and so on and so on.
Most of the people on the show were not of English or British heritage, but Jewish immigrants third generation, Indian heritage or Spanish (Michael Portillo) and they ended up basically summarising saying that people who were flying the flag (for footy) had no idea it stood for racism, bigotry and domination and it has serious undertones.
That’s how bad its got…at least down at the BBC.
[/quote]
The Austrian flag is red-white-red because the Duke of Austria slaughtered so many Muslims in a crusade battle that the only white part left of his crusade tunic was the part were he had had his belt after he took it off…
[quote]Meddyg Stigg wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
At a personal level, I had an England flag as a table cloth for the start of the World Cup but it got covered in booze so I threw it out. Certainly doesn’t make me any less patriotic - It’s just a piece of material until you imbue it with some power it doesn’t have.
I was listening to this prog on radio 4 on the way back from this place, GreyPaul in Nottingham, and they were discussing what it means to be patritoic in the UK.
They started off talking about how the English Flag was supposedly offensive to many because it was a symbol of the crusades which made George Bush’s antics look like a Chimps Tea Party. Then they mentioned St. George was the patron saint of Syphillis and so on and so on.
Most of the people on the show were not of English or British heritage, but Jewish immigrants third generation, Indian heritage or Spanish (Michael Portillo) and they ended up basically summarising saying that people who were flying the flag (for footy) had no idea it stood for racism, bigotry and domination and it has serious undertones.
That’s how bad its got…at least down at the BBC.
[/quote]
Fuck 'em. Change it then to make everyone happy. As long as I have something to wave and other people have something to burn I’m over the moon.
[quote]Meddyg Stigg wrote:
they ended up basically summarising saying that people who were flying the flag (for footy) had no idea it stood for racism, bigotry and domination and it has serious undertones.
[/quote]
I’ve been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag
Not feeling shameful
Racist or partial
Quite a shame.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
The Republicans keep bring this up. I think this is the third time. Each time the vote gets closer. This time they missed by one vote. I think they only brought it up this time because it is an election year. There are to many other things they should be working on.
Me Solomon Grundy
Pshaw, everyone knows that the Supreme Court would rule such an amendment unconstitutional!
A political science professor told me so.[/quote]
Actually, I think you are wrong here. The Supreme Court would have no jurisdiction on a duly passed admendment that was duly ratified by the states. In other words, once it is in the Consitiution (don’t forget amending the constitution IS a constitutional process) the it IS CONSTITUTIONAL.
Anyway, I am saddened by the fact that once again, the U.S. Senate cannot even protect this symbol of our great nation.
God help us…
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Actually, I think you are wrong here. The Supreme Court would have no jurisdiction on a duly passed admendment that was duly ratified by the states. In other words, once it is in the Consitiution (don’t forget amending the constitution IS a constitutional process) the it IS CONSTITUTIONAL. [/quote]
Neph was being sarcastic: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1129270
The most interesting thing about the proposed amendment so far is that Diane Feinstein was for it:
http://feinstein.senate.gov/06releases/r-flag-protect.htm
I would love to get some background on how she came to that position, given her solid blue state credentials and voting base.
On an another amusing and related note, Hillary voted against the flag-burning amendment after sponsoring a bill to outlaw flag-burning – any thoughts, other than the usual that she has no actual convictions?
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
On an another amusing and related note, Hillary voted against the flag-burning amendment after sponsoring a bill to outlaw flag-burning – any thoughts, other than the usual that she has no actual convictions?[/quote]
Sure: She knew that a flag burning bill would be struck down, which would fit nicely into her political agenda without actually risking it becoming law (for long).
An amendment would be doing it for real.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The most interesting thing about the proposed amendment so far is that Diane Feinstein was for it:
http://feinstein.senate.gov/06releases/r-flag-protect.htm
I would love to get some background on how she came to that position, given her solid blue state credentials and voting base.[/quote]
The Dems were hedging their bets by voting for making flag buring illegal while voting against making it an amendment.
Just another ‘John Kerry’ of being for it before they were against it.