Fixing The Race Thing

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

I recently started a thread stating my conclusion that blacks were more violent than whites and that this helped explain the violence in New Orleans.

I don?t believe that there?s a violence ?gene? or that any single black individual is more violent than any other person. I?m talking about ?social; groups? . . . large sample populations. I?m saying that if you take a large black community and a large white community and compare them, you will find that the black community is more violent.

Now, it?s not just me saying it . . . the FBI (federal Bureau of Intimidation) says it. As I showed in the thread, in the last reporting year (2003) the black population of 13% committed 49% of the murders in this country. Blacks killed whites at twice the rates that whites killed blacks. A black population of 13% accounts for 65% of people in prison. One out of three (30%) of black men go to jail. A comparison of cities with large black populations against those with large white populations shows that ?black? cities are more violent. A review of National Guard deployments to handle civil unrest shows that the unrest is always in the black community.

Naturally, I got called a bigot, a racist and every name you can think of for daring to suggest that skin color had anything to do with the problem. White liberals rose up in droves to condemn me.

Of course, these same people know that blacks dominate most professional sports. They should know that blacks require 20-30 times the amount of ultra-violet light to generate the same amount of Vitamin D in their body. They should know that serum testosterone levels are much higher in black males . . . which explains why blacks have a higher incidence of prostate cancer. They should know that older black women in the United States suffer fewer hip and neck fractures than their white counterparts, probably because blacks tend to have stronger bones to start with. They should know that that endemic malaria in West Africa resulted in genetic selection for blood abnormalities that protect against malaria but can have dangerous side effects. Only blacks, therefore, get sickle cell disease. It likewise appears that cancers behave differently, and more dangerously, in blacks than in whites for reasons that also appear to be genetic. And finally, they should know that not only are black IQs often lower when compared to whites and other races but: ?When blacks and whites are matched for IQ, blacks still commit crimes at two-and-a-half times the white rate. This shows that blacks must have some other characteristic, besides low intelligence, that explains their high levels of criminality.? Read the rest of the article, here: Race and Psychopathic Personality - American Renaissance

In other words, there are significant differences among the races and researchers are more and more reaching the conclusion that RACIAL DIFFERENCES MATTER.

But it is admittedly difficult to separate race from economics and history.

One of the most popular responses I got seemed to be that it all had to do with black poverty and a history of repression. As one man said, he lived close to a poor white community and he was sure that:

?In a NO type situation they would not have stolen Nikes. No, they would have stolen guns and drugs, and then gone for jewelry stores and any place else with valuables, seeing this as their chance to “make it”. Why are they different from me? It is totally a question of their socio-economic class. So, I think that if you flooded Greene county VA. you would see the same behavior.?

Well . . . with all due respect . . . that’s not supported by anecdotal evidence.

Mostly “poor-white-trash” communities in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama WERE hit just as hard as NO and the citizens did not turn into savages. We saw huge floods along the Mississippi River in the early 90s . . . where many communities were poor and white . . . and you did not see the anarchy and chaos you see in NO. When Hurricane Andrew hit Homestead, it wiped out entire communities of very poor migrants, Hispanics and whites . . . yet that city did not descend into savagery and chaos.

So I get it . . . socio-economics and history plays a huge part. I get that. BUT THERE’S SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON in the black community.

And SKIN COLOR IS A FACTOR because skin color also does one very important thing:

It determines culture.

Popular black culture in America today is like a cancer in the body or a self-destruct virus in a computer. There are values in the black community that lead to self-destructiveness. What are these self-destructive values? Well, I think some of them are :

  1. Welfare/dependency mentality versus the entrepreneurial mentality

  2. “Gansta” quick-money mentality versus the path of a profession or a trade

  3. Black separatism versus inclusion into the broader society

  4. The belief that a ?man? has sex with as many women as possible (and fathers children) versus the belief in sexual abstinence or safe-sex

  5. The belief that a ?man? handles problems with the fist or a gun versus walking away or avoiding the problem in the first place

  6. The belief in the ?gang? as a means of self-identity or individual power versus the belief in individuality

Now, many of these negative beliefs shape the values in other social groups too. (For example, there are Mexican gangs and Jewish gangs.) But in those communities, negative beliefs compete with more positive values such as religion and the strong family unit. Their influence is not as corrosive.

Unfortunately, not so in black communities.

Why is a corrosive value system sustained in the black community? In my opinion, it is the fault of:

  1. Black leaders who have made a lot of money and/or and have developed great political power by keeping blacks in the situation they are in right now. The majority of popular leaders preach separatism and demand redress for past and ?ongoing? repression instead of demanding individual responsibility and hard work. Jesse Jackson, for example, has made a fortune extorting white-owned corporations (and little of that money has trickled down.) Al Sharpton is another one who has gained tremendous notoriety and power by beating the race drum.

  2. White politicians who have grown rich and powerful on the ?black problem.?

  3. Well-meaning white liberals (like many T-Nation readers) who enable black dependency by making excuses for anti-social behavior and/or fostering well-meaning but ineffective programs.

  4. Well-off and middle-class blacks who run away from the problem instead of re-investing in black communities.

So, I hope New Orleans serves as a wake-up call. It has probably opened up a Pandora?s Box of civil unrest in disaster situations like the 1965 Watt?s Riot opened the era of black urban riots in the 60s.

Until we fix the real problem in the black community, situations like New Orleans will continue.

My 2 cents, folks.

2

After reading the other thread and keeping an open and objective mind on the subject, I think JJJJ has made some very interesting points. It has been interesting reading to me and interesting how quickly he was labeled for points I think he did a fair-good job of supporting with the FBI stats. My mind changed a few times on the subject as I read, but I do think it is an interesting discussion and interesting that it seems difficult for many to discuss without insults (on both sides of the discussion).

I have not read Charles Barkley’s book, but from some of the excerpts from it, I gathered that he believes the “victim mentality” is the biggest factor among many blacks as it relates to improving their socio-economic conditions. Similiar to Bill Cosby.

I believe the points made in the post as it relates to cause are possibly valid and will look forward to some of the responses to them.

3

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
I don?t believe that there?s a violence ?gene? or that any single black individual is more violent than any other person. I?m talking about ?social; groups? . . . large sample populations. I?m saying that if you take a large black community and a large white community and compare them, you will find that the black community is more violent.

[…]

Now, many of these negative beliefs shape the values in other social groups too. (For example, there are Mexican gangs and Jewish gangs.) But in those communities, negative beliefs compete with more positive values such as religion and the strong family unit. Their influence is not as corrosive.

Unfortunately, not so in black communities.[/quote]

You’ve really outdone yourself here. This is absolutely the most idiotic thing I’ve read in a long time.

I still don’t understand what do you think you’re trying to achieve with your posts.

I’m not going to repeat here what I wrote in my other post, except the last part: you’re first of all hurting yourself by thinking that way. I’m really and truly sorry for you.

4

[quote]hspder wrote:
I still don’t understand what do you think you’re trying to achieve with your posts.[/quote]

ANSWER: I’m trying to look at an old problem as honestly as I can . . . and suggest that as long as we explain what’s happening with FAILED, half-assed, well-meaning but inept, liberal bullshit, we continue to enable it.

5

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
ANSWER: I’m trying to look at an old problem as honestly as I can . . . and suggest that as long as we explain what’s happening with FAILED, half-assed, well-meaning but inept, liberal bullshit, we continue to enable it.
[/quote]

“we continue to enable it”?!?!?!

Wow. Now I understand.

I feel really stupid for not realizing what your alias meant… It was pretty obvious, now that I think of it: multiple repeated letters, and the K does come after the J. I guess I needed a more visual cue, like a white pointy hat on your avatar.

Honestly, I’m the one that I feel I’m enabling KKK’ers like you by bothering to respond.

The irony is that my political beliefs – the ones you’re making fun of – force me to not try to shut you up, but I’m more than allowed to ignore you. So that’s what I’m going to do.

Over and out.

6

[quote]hspder wrote:
I’m more than allowed to ignore you. So that’s what I’m going to do.
[/quote]

Well, frankly, no great loss. You don’t know me. I’m 50 years old . . . already lived a long life with lost of experiences. I’ve probably WRITTEN more articles and opinion pieces in my lifetime than you’re READ. For you to categorize me as a “bigot” or a “racist” is the epitome of bigotry (intolerance). You have no idea what my beliefs and values are . . . but you’re quick to dismiss them because you disagree with me.

I suppose you think your dismissive intolerance helps black people and furthers the cause of “racial harmony.” To the contrary . . . it’s your type of bigotry that ENABLES the problems in the black community. You’re hurting the very people you’re seeking to defend.

KKK, huh? Shit man, how do you know I’m not black?

7

[quote]AC1 wrote:

It has been interesting reading to me and interesting how quickly he was labeled for points I think he did a fair-good job of supporting with the FBI stats. My mind changed a few times on the subject as I read…
[/quote]

If your mind changed on his stats you appear to be a very easily influenced individual.

Those “stats” as I stated before takes on factor “color” and compares crime rates. Very simplified view that takes no critical thinking skills whatsoever to draw conclusions based on that data.

I would love to see data based on population densities, economic level, race-mixture per person, education quality of schools in the area and racial breakdown of each area, etc. My contention is that population density and economic level of the individual far outweigh any skin color issue.

JJJJackass thinks he’s going to reprove his quicksand bigoted thesis by starting new threads. I don’t think so… The garbage he threw out on this thread outdoes all of the crap he’s spewed forward thus far. Remember, simple-minded individuals are only capable of drawing simple-minded conclusions. The lack of critical thinking skills is more than apparent with this waste of human feces.

8

I belive it’s upbringing coupled with peer groups that cause the problems.

Adult Children of Alcoholics. This book suggests that people are royally messed up by learning low-self esteem, not to trust anyone, violence is a solution, sex is a solution, etc. I think it would do you some good to read this.

9

JJJJ, I’ve followed your other thread without posting, but I thought I’d stop being a witness, although I won’t add much.

First: IQ scores are generally bullshit. It is extremely difficult to design a test that measures natural intelligence, a test that is not socially or educationally biased.

I have taken many IQ tests, and there are a large number of questions that I knew how to answer correctly, not because I was smart, but because I had a college education. If you test 18 year-old black kids from the hood, that dropped out of school at 14, they will score lower than than rich, white kids of the same IQ simply because they won’t understand many of the words in the questions, won’t be used to taking tests, and most likely won’t even give a damn because the test is not going to change their lives. How many 18 year-old white kids are not worried about their SATs, for example?

If we’re talking about an older population, think about this: How much more stimulated is the mind of a white engineer compared to that of a black bus driver? And again, an engineer will probably understand all the words in the test, a bus driver might not.

In view of this, I’m not sure how legitimate it is to compare IQs and say that whites are smarter than blacks.

Second: Where I do agree with you, is on the subject of victimisation. If the black community stopped feeling sorry for themselves they would find themselves in a better social postion. This wouldn’t happen overnight (I’m not going to say they are not suffering social injustice, because most are), but generation by generation, they would achieve it.

I don’t have any type of statistics, but from what I’ve personally seen in the US, I would say the hispanic community is better off than the black community. If most of the hispanics come from illegal immigration (their parents, or grandparents, etc.), how come they are better off? It seems to me that the hispanic community has sucked it up and worked hard to climb out of poverty. The same can be said of other foreign nationalities in the US (Koreans, Vietnamese, Polish, etc.)

The feeling I get (from an outside point of view) is that the blacks blame the whites for their social situation, and they expect the whites to get them out of it. I have commented on this with black people I have met in the US, and they have generally agreed.

Also, if blacks really hated whites as much as some say they do, they wouldn’t sit around crying. They would go out, get rid of their guns and chains, get a college education, and start occupying influential posts. Can anyone imagine how much it would piss off the white Republicans to have a nation full of Armani-wearing, educated black people?

And just think of the heart attacks amongst Republicans when they see the first black, Democrat lesbian running for president. Now that would be worth watching the TV for.

10

[quote]Miserere wrote:

Can anyone imagine how much it would piss off the white Republicans to have a nation full of Armani-wearing, educated black people?[/quote]

What an ignorant comment to make in an otherwise sensible post. You buy into the far-left accusation that white republicans hate blacks and want to keep them down? Do you get your information on American politics from Oliver Stone movies?

11

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
KKK, huh? Shit man, how do you know I’m not black?
[/quote]

I really cannot see anyone who is black painting their entire race as being more prone to violence. Just a wild guess.

12

Colin Powell, Condi Rice?

13

[quote]hspder wrote:

“we continue to enable it”?!?!?!

Wow. Now I understand.

I feel really stupid for not realizing what your alias meant… It was pretty obvious, now that I think of it: multiple repeated letters, and the K does come after the J. I guess I needed a more visual cue, like a white pointy hat on your avatar.

Honestly, I’m the one that I feel I’m enabling KKK’ers like you by bothering to respond.

The irony is that my political beliefs – the ones you’re making fun of – force me to not try to shut you up, but I’m more than allowed to ignore you. So that’s what I’m going to do.

Over and out.
[/quote]

I wonder what you would say if you were to actually address what he wrote point by point?

I enjoy reading this debate, but wish that you would actually add to it!

14

[quote]ZEB wrote:
hspder wrote:

“we continue to enable it”?!?!?!

Wow. Now I understand.

I feel really stupid for not realizing what your alias meant… It was pretty obvious, now that I think of it: multiple repeated letters, and the K does come after the J. I guess I needed a more visual cue, like a white pointy hat on your avatar.

Honestly, I’m the one that I feel I’m enabling KKK’ers like you by bothering to respond.

The irony is that my political beliefs – the ones you’re making fun of – force me to not try to shut you up, but I’m more than allowed to ignore you. So that’s what I’m going to do.

Over and out.

I wonder what you would say if you were to actually address what he wrote point by point?

I enjoy reading this debate, but wish that you would actually add to it!
[/quote]

Zeb,

His “points” have been adressed multiple times. He’s obviously got an agenda against black people. He’s presented surface data and then makes huge jumps from data to conclusions. I’m really questioning why anyone would find his racially-biased opinions entertaining.

But maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, since the average T-Nation reader profile is a white, middle-class male, between 18 and 35 years old. I also find it interesting that there are very few outspoken critics of his blatantly racially charged statements. I wonder if there is some connection with the forumite profile and the lack of posts disagreeing with his drivel. Hmmm…interesting…isn’t it?

I guess I was naive to think that in the year 2005, racism could only be found in small pockets of people in the U.S. I have been quite disappointed, however, since many T-Nationers have displayed different shades of racism in their post(s). And for those who haven’t posted a counter-argument towards this guy, shame on you. Your silence on this issue spells acquiescence to me.

As a matter of fact, I’m surprised he’s been allowed to post this long on T-Nation. In my opinion, he’s towing the line between an honest debate (at times ) to outright racially-biased statements with less than altruistic motives.

15

[quote]randman wrote:
But maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, since the average T-Nation reader profile is a white, middle-class male, between 18 and 35 years old. I also find it interesting that there are very few outspoken critics of his blatantly racially charged statements. I wonder if there is some connection with the forumite profile and the lack of posts disagreeing with his drivel. Hmmm…interesting…isn’t it?
[/quote]

It is and has been for a while. Mind you, racism is so hard to find now-a-days, isn’t it?

16

[quote]Kuz wrote:
I really cannot see anyone who is black painting their entire race as being more prone to violence. Just a wild guess.[/quote]

KUZ . . . not more PRONE to violence. The race IS more violent. The government census and criminal stats prove it. (Whether you like it or not.)

The question is why? And more importantly, what can be done about it?

17

[quote]Miserere wrote:
I don’t have any type of statistics, but from what I’ve personally seen in the US, I would say the hispanic community is better off than the black community. If most of the hispanics come from illegal immigration (their parents, or grandparents, etc.), how come they are better off? It seems to me that the hispanic community has sucked it up and worked hard to climb out of poverty. The same can be said of other foreign nationalities in the US (Koreans, Vietnamese, Polish, etc.)[/quote]

Please don’t make statements like that, when you clearly have no idea of what you’re talking about. And I’m not just saying this because you’re not a US resident, I’m saying this because your specific statements show that you are making a lot of assumptions that have no root in reality, and that’s the last thing we need in this “discussion”.

Basically, even if that were true (it is not, especially in the San Francisco Bay Area, where the large majority of people living below the poverty line are of hispanic or chinese descent) it is besides the point – what would you do with that conclusion? Really, what? How can that possibly help anyone or anything?

On the contrary – that kind of statements tends to just make it worse.

18

[quote]randman wrote:
As a matter of fact, I’m surprised he’s been allowed to post this long on T-Nation. In my opinion, he’s towing the line between an honest debate (at times ) to outright racially-biased statements with less than altruistic motives.[/quote]

Towing? Do you mean TOEING the line as in I’m right on it . . . or do you envision me hooking a chain to “the line” and TOWING it away?

Freudian slip on your part? Lots of straight lines in your world, perhaps? The US government’s own statistics indicate that the black race is more violent. Unfortunately, that seems to upset your view of the world. Upsetting to challenge yourself, huh?

It’s a little like adding a few extra pounds to your max bench or squat.

I suspect T-Nation allowed this debate because they understand it . . . even if you so obviously do not.

19

[quote]randman wrote:

I also find it interesting that there are very few outspoken critics of his blatantly racially charged statements. I wonder if there is some connection with the forumite profile and the lack of posts disagreeing with his drivel. Hmmm…interesting…isn’t it?[/quote]

I think - and I am speaking for myself - that the lack of response isn’t some sort of tacit approval, it is a desire to not bother responding to fringe chatterboxes in hopes that they will go away. It becomes a waste of energy to go after every single troll or wild-eyed theorist.

It shouldn’t. Some posts just aren’t worth the time.

I think there are some things worthwhile to debate in some of JJJJ’s stuff - culture, for example, as an overwhelming factor in why violence is so prevalent in black communities.

But, JJJJ’s approach starts with a basic idea that blacks have some innate racial pre-disposition toward anti-social behavior and that while culture can influence that behavior, biology is driving their problems.

To which, I say hogwash. And since that is JJJJ’s main thesis, there is little point in bothering with the other stuff, like culture, etc. Giant waste of time.

20

Anyone interested in the issue of race or gender differences ought to check out this article

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article.asp?aid=12002015_1

A very scholarly work which sets out the arguments in great detail, with numerous references.