T Nation

Five Three One


#1

Laying some groundwork.. Just did Max Strength.. now jumping on the 5/3/1 train. I am going to stick to the first template, and do the Big But Boring for assistance work.

Mon:Military
Tue:Deadlift
Wed:off
Thur:Bench
Fri:Squat

I couldn't really compare my maxes on Max Strength because I didn't do 'packing day' and then tried to do 'moving day' essentially and so I was comparing my best lifts ever to 4 maxes in a 3 day span.

And here are my unimpressive #'s

Military
1rm 135
90% 121.5

  • This may be an underestimated, but I am not sure yet

Deadlift
1rm 365
90% 328.5

  • I've only pulled sumo, but I want to switch to conventional.
    I am only assuming this is my max, my sumo 1rm is 405
    On wk1, when I pull 85%, I am going to use Wendler's formula
    weight x reps x 0.03333 + weight and see how close to 365 I'll be
    and can readjust as necessary

Bench
1rm 225
90% 202.5

  • I will essentially be doing the same that I did with bench that I
    will do with deadlift. I just missed 225, but that was with 2
    horrible lift offs on a max attempt

Squat
1rm 265
90% 238.5

  • Once again, same with my deadlift and bench. I just did a 275 max on
    a 16inch box, which is parallel for me. But my last free squat max
    was 265. I can readjust if needed.

I read somewhere Wendler said that 85% should be about a 5rm. Therefore, wk1 when I pull 85%, I should be able to hit well over 5 reps (considering I am already lowering weights by 10%). I would assume for
Military: 85%=105=should be around 9 reps
Deadlift 85%=279.225=280 and 9 reps
Bench 85%=172.125=175 and 9 reps
Squat 85%=202.725=205 and 9 reps
If I actually plug those #'s into a 1rep max calc, I get close to the max.

I started doing some mobility work in Max Strength, but I'll admit I was a little lazy with it and didn't always do all of it. The workouts took forever, and the add'l 15 mins was hard to make myself do.. I figure 5/3/1 won't be as long as the Max Strength in duration wise (on some high intensity days it took almost 2 hours).

As far as the BBB assistance, I am going to start with 40% and see how it goes. I may switch it up after I get used to it (maybe weigh ramp down)

Also, everything else will stay the same except Bench day I am going to do 2x10, 1xmax reps Kroc Rows.


#2

Cycle 1, Wave 1

Military

warmup: band pec stretch (8 sec/side), band shoulder discloations (10 reps), band behind the neck pulldown (10 reps), scapular pushups (10 reps)

barx5
50 (1x5 @ 40%)
65 (1x5 @ 50%)
75 (1x3 @ 60%)

5/3/1:
80x5
95x5
105x9

BBB:
50 (5x10 @ 40%)

Chins:
5x10 or 50 total reps
10, 10, 7, 4, 4, 6, 5, 4

Notes:

Even though today was a the beginning, and probably the easiest it will get, I kept the 5/3/1 rest periods to 2-3 minutes. I figure that will be ok for upper body, but can do more if needed. For lower, I’ll probably do closer to 3-5 mins. I plan on using wrist wraps anything 85% and up (on bench, military, and squat… and a belt on 85% and up on squat).

On the Big But Boring section, I kept rest between 60-90 secs. Same thing, I may go a little longer if needed, but that seemed about right. For lower, I’ll definitely be doing 90-180 secs as needed. I was trying to lift explosively as possible on here. I know what you’re thinking… Hey Gabe… it was only 50lbs… of course it should be explosive, pussy.

I feel like I rushed the chins. I knew I wouldn’t get all 5 sets of 10, but the first couple sets I was waiting 90-120 sec between sets, and I should have been waiting closer to 120-180. As you can see, after I started resting 180 secs, I started getting more reps. Right now, my lats feel like they are ripping out of my back, and my arms had the craziest pump.


#3

Cycle 1, Wave 1

Deadlift

warmup: wall ankle mobilization (8/side), pike calf stretch (12 sec/side), supine bridges (10 reps), kneeling rf/tfl stretch (10 sec/10 sec/side), seated 90/90 stretch (12 sec/side), overhead lunges (5/side), leg swings (8/side/plane), squat stretch (2x12 sec)

barx5
135 (1x5 @ 40%)
165 (1x5 @ 50%)
200 (1x3 @ 60%)

5/3/1:
215x5
250x5
280x6

BBB:
135 (5x8 @ 40%)

Abs:
Hanging Leg Raisesx10
Leg Raiesx10
Rope pulldowns 70x15, 80x15, 85x15

Notes:

I tried conventional. I’ve never pulled conventional. It sucked. I suck. I tried to remember all the cues. Feet closer together, toes pointed out, back arched, shoulders over bar, head up, weight on heels, sit back, pull back. After set 2 in 5/3/1 I knew I wasn’t going to make it. I finished with sumo.

I ended up talking to one of the trainers for a little. Main take home point: neurologically I’m used to sumo, and most likely my gluts aren’t firing. I am going to throw in x-band walks… I didn’t know there was a band at the gym to use for them, but he showed me one.

He asked me why I wanted to do conventional instead of sumo… to be honest, I have no good reason except my sumo pull hasn’t made any good progression… I am going to stick with the same starting max and finish this cycle with sumo. I may keep going, I don’t know.

He also suggested I do one legged back extensions… I think I’ll throw these in place of leg curls on squat day.

As for the abs, I don’t see how anyone can do 5x15 hanging leg raises the day after doing 50 chins. That’s insane.

Also, I figured since I noted in the Military day, I’ll also note here: I did 3 min rests for 5/3/1 and for the first 2 sets of BBB, did 2 min rests, and moved to 3 for the last 3… I was pulling the bar as fast as possible on the BBB and it definitely got me winded.


#4

Just a thought, I was looking at the BBB for Squat day… and I’ll be squatting 5x10 with 100lbs (40%). Now, I use a semi wide stance, low bar, belted squat. I won’t need a belt for 100lbs, and I don’t think I’ll be able to use a low bar just because I can’t imagine using a low bar position for 100lbs. Therefore, I was thinking of doing high bar/olympic squat for BBB. Good idea? Bad idea? Will I see as much of a carry over?

That being said, if that works for squat, would it work for deadlift? Sumo on 5/3/1 and conventional on BBB?


#5

good luck man, we have the same 1 RM numbers, let’s see how we do with this program, next week i’ll start with cycle 2.

for sqaut assistance i use front squats, Romain deadlifts and knee raises, all 5x10


#6

This looks cool bro. Interested to see how strong you get. Got any goals for the 1st cycle?


#7

Thanks for stopping by guys.

@tuchavito
I notice you’re cutting while doing 5/3/1. After my first day, I was ravenous. I might just hafta bump up my cals.

@WhiteFlash
I have no idea about the first cycle. I kinda just want to grease the grooves.

And I hate to do this, but with this week being 4th of July… and kinda I messed up schedule…

I may have to combine workouts (bench and squat). Just kinda sucks because it’ll make the other weeks hard to compare.


#8

[quote]gabex wrote:
Just a thought, I was looking at the BBB for Squat day… and I’ll be squatting 5x10 with 100lbs (40%). Now, I use a semi wide stance, low bar, belted squat. I won’t need a belt for 100lbs, and I don’t think I’ll be able to use a low bar just because I can’t imagine using a low bar position for 100lbs. Therefore, I was thinking of doing high bar/olympic squat for BBB. Good idea? Bad idea? Will I see as much of a carry over?

That being said, if that works for squat, would it work for deadlift? Sumo on 5/3/1 and conventional on BBB?
[/quote]

I think you should be just fine with the squat. I use a high bar position and no belt for my BBB sets. One thing I am going to throw out there to you just as a suggestion. I personally think that high rep deads can be a little dangerous because you get tired and form breaks down.

I use the BBB template for bench, squat, and MP, but for deadlifts I just do Stiff Leg Deadlifts (SLDL) with 225 instead of 50% of my deadlift max. I still do 5 sets of 10, but I can use lighter weights since it is SLDL.

Just some food for thought. Good luck on the program. I have been on it for a while and am loving it!


#9

[quote]gabex wrote:
Thanks for stopping by guys.

@tuchavito
I notice you’re cutting while doing 5/3/1. After my first day, I was ravenous. I might just hafta bump up my cals.

[/quote]

yep, and it seems i’ve been doing alright, yeah the first week was a shit cause i knew shit about diet and training went really bad, but in week two i made some minor tweaks,and so far i’ve lost 4kg :).

i really recomend front squats’ they are really good for the core wich helps a lot in normal squats, also i wouldn’t recommend you to do high rep DL(to prevent injuries) , instead do Roamin DL or rack pulls, good luck


#10

@tuchavito
I just did tons of front squats on Max Strength. I may try to use them for assistance later on.

As far as the BBB deads, I think you’re both right. It really took its toll on me. I knew my schedule was goin to be a bit weird this week, and didn’t know how it’d work out. I ended up trying to combine the 5/3/1 bench and squat movements in 1 work out, but I started benching, and felt super weak. the weights didn’t feel heavy, I just couldn’t move them. I did 175x6… which I should have gotten at least 8 IMO. I ended with 5x10 and kroc rows.

So unfortunately, I sucked on the deadlift day. I sucked on the bench day. I missed the squat day.

With that being said, I am restarting from the beginning tomorrow. I’m going to change the BBB deads… for probably RDL’s… not sure yet.


#11

Restart…

Cycle 1, Wave 1

Military

warmup: band pec stretch (8 sec/side), band shoulder discloations (10 reps), band behind the neck pullaparts (10 reps), scapular pushups (10 reps)

barx5
50 (1x5 @ 40%)
65 (1x5 @ 50%)
75 (1x3 @ 60%)

5/3/1:
80x5
95x5
105x9

BBB:
50 (5x10 @ 40%)

Chins:
5x10 or 50 total reps
10, 10, 8, 6, 5, 5, 6

Notes:

Exact same as last week. I was feeling a little weaker today. The 105x9 wasn’t hard, but last time I thought I was good for another few reps… this time I may have been able to force 1 more out, but I left it at 9. I didn’t rush the chins this time, so was able to finish with 7 sets instead of 8.


#12

Cycle 1, Wave 1

Deadlift

warmup: wall ankle mobilization (8/side), pike calf stretch (12 sec/side), x-band walks (5/sidex2), kneeling rf/tfl stretch (10 sec/10 sec/side), seated 90/90 stretch (12 sec/side), overhead lunges (5/side), leg swings (8/side/plane), squat stretch (2x12 sec)

barx5
135 (1x5 @ 40%)
165 (1x5 @ 50%)
200 (1x3 @ 60%)

5/3/1:
215x5
250x5
280x8

Cable Pullthroughs:
100x10
100x10
100x10
90x10
85x10

Abs:
Ab Pulldowns: 80x15, 80x15, 85x12
Decline Situps: 45x15, 45x12

Notes:

Sticking to sumo.

Didn’t do BBB for deads. First time I’ve actually felt pull throughs… from my hips through my lower back. Tried to do 60-90 sec rests for all 5 sets.

Did some abs.


#13

Fuck.

No reason to bullshit. Time for 100% honesty, no excuses. I need to be accountable. It’s part of the reason of posting a log.

I finished EC Max Strength, and the following week kinda just went in to the gym and just lifted.

I started 5/3/1, and I kind of thought I should have waited one more week, but didn’t. I went in Military Monday… good. Deadlift Tuesday… not so good, but I was battling myself on sumo vs. conventional. Wednesday being an off day. I was invited to go for some drinks after work with some of the new people. Let’s just say, by the end of the night, I was back at my place, sharing my full-size bed (I’m 6’1, I need a fucking bigger bed).

I had the hardest time falling asleep. Thursday I was exhausted. I was tired all day. I told myself after work I’d power nap then go to the gym. I ended up sleeping from 6:30-8:30, and waking up so hungry. All that was here was a frozen pizza, so I cooked it, ate it, and realized the gym was closing. I told myself I would combine Bench 5/3/1 and Squat 5/3/1 on Friday. The gym was closed Saturday (and I wouldn’t be going Sunday, after the holiday celebrations). I did Bench 5/3/1 and barely got 175x6, which is short at least 2 reps. I said fuck the Squat 5/3/1, did Bench BBB, and Kroc Rows.

Started over this week. Military Monday… good again. Deadlift Tuesday… a lot better. However, I started feeling sick on Tueday…sore throat. Wednesday I had cold sweats, coughing, sneezing, congestion, etc. I had to rough it out at work all day. Came home. Been pretty much laying in bed since. I am going to MedCheck later (mainly due to the fact that someone in the office had Mono and I need to make sure I have nothing of the sort).

I slept 7:30-11 last night, then from 1-11 today. I am laying around still, will probably take a few naps throughout the day, and some Nyquil to sleep again tonight.

I WILL BENCH TOMORROW. I WILL SQUAT SATURDAY. NO MATTER HOW WEAK I FEEL, I WILL DO IT.

This is going to be hard. It is one of my friends last weekends here in town, and another is in town visiting, and they will all be wanting to go out and party.


#14

Cycle 1, Wave 1

Bench

warmup: band pec stretch (8 sec/side), band shoulder discloations (10 reps), band behind the neck pullaparts (10 reps), scapular pushups (10 reps)

barx5
85 (1x5 @ 40%)
105 (1x5 @ 50%)
125 (1x3 @ 60%)

5/3/1:
135x5
155x5
175x9

BBB:
85 (5x10 @ 40%)

Kroc Rows:
60x10
65x10
70x20

Notes:

Still had cold sweats today. Was thirsty all day long but kept chugging water. Down 3lbs… not good… hopefully just water weight

Got 175x9… that’s more like it!


#15

Cycle 1, Wave 1

Squat

warmup: wall ankle mobilization (8/side), pike calf stretch (12 sec/side), supine bridges (10 reps), kneeling rf/tfl stretch (10 sec/10 sec/side), seated 90/90 stretch (12 sec/side), overhead lunges (5/side), leg swings (8/side/plane), squat stretch (2x12 sec)

barx5
100 (1x5 @ 40%)
120 (1x5 @ 50%)
145 (1x3 @ 60%)

5/3/1:
160x5
180x5
205x7

BBB:
100 (5x10 @ 40%)

Abs:
Ab Pulldowns: 80x15, 80x15, 85x15
Hanging Leg Raises: 2x10

Notes:

I wanted at least 205x8… few issues:
1). I haven’t free squatted much recently (Max Strength is a lot of box squat and front squat)
2). I am wearing different shoes (which turn out to be good for deadlifting) and are bad for squatting… lack ankle support. I felt like I was going to roll my ankles
3). I did BBB barefoot and was waiting on the gym staff to come yell at me
4). Lets rename BBB from Big But Boring to Big But Brutal… I was having to take 3 min rests
5). My ass hurts (no homo)
6). I didn’t do any other ham/glut/quad/hip assistance like planned… I just couldn’t… so I did abs

Also, I’m thinking of re-ordering my days
Monday: bench (universal bench day, hey hey)
Tuesday: squat (this workout by far took me the longest, 1hr15min including mobility/warm up… and doing this on a Friday will not be ideal)
Wed: off
Thurday: military (not my main priority anyways)
Friday: deadlift (I think I can recover quicker from squatting, than I can from deadlifting…

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions… Chime in people

Thanks for stopping by


#16

It looks like the new schedule should work well for you. I use the 3-day version of the 5/3/1 and I lift either Mon/Wed/Fri or Tues/Thurs/Sat depending on which one fits my schedule better for that particular week. The one you have set up looks like it should be great.

As for squat shoes what kind are you wearing that you don’t like for squatting? Since you said they don’t have much ankle support I would guess they are chucks. Any ideas for a replacement?

Keep up the good work! It will pay off.


#17

I forgot one thing. I do the BBB for my accessory work as well and it can be BRUTAL for sure. I love it though. I think it is going to pay off. I have not done a routine with this much volume in a while.


#18

[quote]Apostate wrote:
It looks like the new schedule should work well for you. I use the 3-day version of the 5/3/1 and I lift either Mon/Wed/Fri or Tues/Thurs/Sat depending on which one fits my schedule better for that particular week. The one you have set up looks like it should be great.

As for squat shoes what kind are you wearing that you don’t like for squatting? Since you said they don’t have much ankle support I would guess they are chucks. Any ideas for a replacement?

Keep up the good work! It will pay off. [/quote]

I normally squat in a pair of low profile running shoes, and I started to use a chuck like shoe for deads (which I like) but accidentally brought them for squatting. They’re both white Pumas, so I must’ve just not been paying attention. I really want a pair of squat shoes… I’m going to check the finances and see how soon I’d be able to do so.

As far as the BBB, I kind of like it. I am not used to doing that much volume on the big lifts, but a lot of assistance like lunges, step ups, split squats, pull throughs, ghr’s, etc and my squat still sucks, so I’m hoping this will help.


#19

I usually deadlift in a pair of chucks, but was looking for a shoe with a slightly raised heel and a very hard sole, like an Olympic lifting shoe or squat shoe to wear on my squat days. I looked into it and those shoes are very expensive running easily over $100. I found that a work boot with a hard sole has the same elevated heel and way more ankle support. That is what I squat in now, it is a little ghetto but it works really well.

Here is a video of me so you can see what I mean. I don’t think it is a replacement for a good Olympic squat shoe, just the working man’s version.


#20

I think I’m looking at these:
VS Athletics

http://www.vsathletics.com/product.php?xProd=1301

$71.95 plus tax & s/h