T Nation

Fitness Standards for Combat Sports?

In terms of strength, conditioning (cardio etc.) & experience, what’s your take on fitness standards for combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, mma etc. at an am & pro level?

That is kinda an ambiguous question. What do you mean?

That question covers a lot of ground.

For training for matches involving rounds, we added a minute per round to what the match called for, cut the break time between rounds in half, and doubled the amount of rounds (for one single match).

The fighter would also face a fresh opponent in each round of training.

This is on top of cardio, running, diet, and lifting.

Half a day a week was taken to watch matches or film of matches. Another half was fun time having absolutely nothing to do with MMA.

There is only one standard. Are you winning your fights. This standard applies to both pros and ams.

[quote]sjfou wrote:
In terms of strength, conditioning (cardio etc.) & experience, what’s your take on fitness standards for combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, mma etc. at an am & pro level?[/quote]

i havent started yet & i dont want go in half-assed. i feel like i’m going to die in my cardio sessions, but so what, strength & conditioning is all done alone so i need to have some goals to aim for so i know i’m training hard enough. plan from my coaches is am boxing in '07, am Muay Thai in '08 & pro MMA late '09…

[quote]sjfou wrote:
i havent started yet & i dont want go in half-assed. i feel like i’m going to die in my cardio sessions, but so what, strength & conditioning is all done alone so i need to have some goals to aim for so i know i’m training hard enough. plan from my coaches is am boxing in '07, am Muay Thai in '08 & pro MMA late '09…[/quote]

Are you kidding… You haven’t started (training in boxing, wrestling or MT I assume) yet and you expect to be a decent fighter in a few years time?? I find that the most important part to becoming a good fighter is…

Fighting!!!

Guys take years to learn the angles necessary to be a decent boxer. What makes you think you are a natural. Start now dude, don’t cheat yourself out of training years. It will take you a year just to figure out how to learn to learn. Most people can’t pick up shit until they’ve been training for a bit.

I have a guy like you where I train MMA. He wants to get his blue belt in BJJ but never comes to class. He has some atheltic ability but sucks awfully compared to way smaller weaker technical dudes.

All the weights in the world won’t make you jack shit in the ring. You have a punchers chance and that is it. Dudes come in all the time for free classes looking jacked. And then they get pissed cause a dude with shoulders like a trout molested them like uncle hal.

-chris

great post peanut butter !

[quote]sjfou wrote:
In terms of strength, conditioning (cardio etc.) & experience, what’s your take on fitness standards for combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, mma etc. at an am & pro level?[/quote]

Fitness is something you can work on anytime. You do not have to be in 100% fighting shape at all times.
You should start now working on your skills.
Even if you are in great shape it won’t mean much without any skills, you will be working way too hard and just wear yourself out(in the ring). Personally nothing replaces sparring. I know there are good routines, but nothing can prepare you for a live opponent who hits you hard.

[quote]otoko wrote:
sjfou wrote:
In terms of strength, conditioning (cardio etc.) & experience, what’s your take on fitness standards for combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, mma etc. at an am & pro level?

Fitness is something you can work on anytime. You do not have to be in 100% fighting shape at all times.
You should start now working on your skills.
Even if you are in great shape it won’t mean much without any skills, you will be working way too hard and just wear yourself out(in the ring). Personally nothing replaces sparring. I know there are good routines, but nothing can prepare you for a live opponent who hits you hard.
[/quote]

Except for live opponents that hit you hard of course. Just kidding.

But seriously sparring is where it lies, sport specific training. It reminds me of about a third of the retards who I over hear talking about the television show “The Ultimate Fighter.” They say shit like:

“I’m pretty ripped, I think I could handle my self in the ‘octagon’”

“I’d make a great UFC fighter because when I fight I just ‘rage’ and noone can stop me”

What the fuck?

This is the only reason I don’t mind smashing the guys that come to train on their first day. Usually I would feel like an ass, but when they look like a frat boy and talk about the TV show, I take succulent delight in forcing them to give up without using a real submission. Don’t be these guys.

By the way you don’t have to know how to fight to get paid to be in a MMA show. I’ve seen a few in the last few months where guys were getting paid for their ‘debut’ (sp?) and they sucked awfully. You can be a pro MMA fighter today!! I should sell that line.

-chris

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
otoko wrote:
sjfou wrote:
In terms of strength, conditioning (cardio etc.) & experience, what’s your take on fitness standards for combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, mma etc. at an am & pro level?

Fitness is something you can work on anytime. You do not have to be in 100% fighting shape at all times.
You should start now working on your skills.
Even if you are in great shape it won’t mean much without any skills, you will be working way too hard and just wear yourself out(in the ring). Personally nothing replaces sparring. I know there are good routines, but nothing can prepare you for a live opponent who hits you hard.

Except for live opponents that hit you hard of course. Just kidding.

But seriously sparring is where it lies, sport specific training. It reminds me of about a third of the retards who I over hear talking about the television show “The Ultimate Fighter.” They say shit like:

“I’m pretty ripped, I think I could handle my self in the ‘octagon’”

“I’d make a great UFC fighter because when I fight I just ‘rage’ and noone can stop me”

What the fuck?

This is the only reason I don’t mind smashing the guys that come to train on their first day. Usually I would feel like an ass, but when they look like a frat boy and talk about the TV show, I take succulent delight in forcing them to give up without using a real submission. Don’t be these guys.

By the way you don’t have to know how to fight to get paid to be in a MMA show. I’ve seen a few in the last few months where guys were getting paid for their ‘debut’ (sp?) and they sucked awfully. You can be a pro MMA fighter today!! I should sell that line.

-chris
[/quote]

I agree 100 percent. That was a great response.
Many casual fans really do not grasp the skill involved. It is fine if they do not act like experts, but many people act like they know what they are talking about and yet they can not throw a proper punch. They have never stepped into a gym.

It is true that guys in local shows do not have very good skills. They are pros because they get paid. These guys are not good examples to learn from.

Anyway to the poster, keep your standards high. Practice your skills all the time and make sure to spar. I like watching certain fighters because you can learn from them. Personally I get to deal with professional often, but if you can get tape on certain people I would reccomend:
James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Pernell Whitiker for boxing, Buakaw, Souwer, Aerts, Hoost, K-1 Mirko, Masato for kickboxing.

I do not pretend to be an authority on grappling, for I started that much later, but I watch nearly anything I can get my hands on. They have alot of submission wrestling tournaments over here, with guys from Shooto and DEEP and ZST etc cheap and easy access and my local gym tends to show fight and grappling dvds all day.

My friend wanted to start training and fighting, I show him when I can. Well built, strong kid. He has made huge improvements in a year. He trains his skills everyday even with two jobs. Even if he has to get his training at the 24 hour gym at 2 in the morning. Even with the work he has put in and he has talent he is far from having great skill. It takes time and work.

Otoko, whereabouts are you in japan?? I might be moving there for 2 semesters on university. hopefully going to waseda or kansai gaidai. Are there many good places to train MMA? I’m thinking I can get some good judo time in.

-chris

Otoko, whereabouts are you in japan?? I might be moving there for 2 semesters on university. hopefully going to waseda or kansai gaidai. Are there many good places to train MMA? I’m thinking I can get some good judo time in.

-chris

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
It reminds me of about a third of the retards who I over hear talking about the television show “The Ultimate Fighter.” They say shit like:

“I’m pretty ripped, I think I could handle my self in the ‘octagon’”

“I’d make a great UFC fighter because when I fight I just ‘rage’ and noone can stop me”
What the fuck?
-chris
[/quote]

I must hear this line 3 or 4 times every weekend. There is something about fighting that people thing is innate. But at the pro level, it involves so much very technical training. You rarely hear people say, “I’m ripped or big so I can be in the NFL” or “I can bench 405 so I know I can hit homeruns in MLB” “I’m tall so I can be in the NBA”

But with fighting, people always think they can fight cause they can hit the bag or throw a punch or they are strong or, my personal favorite, and most common in my experience…
“When I get mad, lookout! I get crazy!”

Needless to say I’m deathly scared of all my friends who don’t train and my girl’s friends, when they get mad they’re all crazy!!! I wonder who’s the ‘craziezt???’ I shudder thinking about it.

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
Otoko, whereabouts are you in japan?? I might be moving there for 2 semesters on university. hopefully going to waseda or kansai gaidai. Are there many good places to train MMA? I’m thinking I can get some good judo time in.

-chris[/quote]

I live in Tokyo, Shinagawa ward. There are alot of places to train. But it would depend where you stay. Waseda is near Takadanobaba. Actually Seidokaikan/k-1 headquarters is in Takadanobaba(but that is karate and kickboxing).

MMA there many good places, AACC, Pancrase, Purebred(Enson Inoue), K’z factory, Scramble Shibuya, Chute Boxe Japan which is in Nakano(maybe 30 minutes from Takadanobaba) and more. Judo you could probably go through the school you attend to help you find a good place to practice.

[quote]Scrappy wrote:
realpeanutbutter wrote:
It reminds me of about a third of the retards who I over hear talking about the television show “The Ultimate Fighter.” They say shit like:

“I’m pretty ripped, I think I could handle my self in the ‘octagon’”

“I’d make a great UFC fighter because when I fight I just ‘rage’ and noone can stop me”
What the fuck?
-chris

I must hear this line 3 or 4 times every weekend. There is something about fighting that people thing is innate. But at the pro level, it involves so much very technical training. You rarely hear people say, “I’m ripped or big so I can be in the NFL” or “I can bench 405 so I know I can hit homeruns in MLB” “I’m tall so I can be in the NBA”

But with fighting, people always think they can fight cause they can hit the bag or throw a punch or they are strong or, my personal favorite, and most common in my experience…
“When I get mad, lookout! I get crazy!”

Needless to say I’m deathly scared of all my friends who don’t train and my girl’s friends, when they get mad they’re all crazy!!! I wonder who’s the ‘craziezt???’ I shudder thinking about it.
[/quote]

That is funny. I hear that in America, I do not hear that here much.
I remember a guy cursing out a poor Japanese reception girl. I asked him what the problem was and told him to relax. He started to walk threateningly towards me while saying “I am from the ghetto motherfucker, I will fuck you up”, and the whole pacing and pulling his pants up bit(I do not understand this).

This tested my patience a bit but I told him I can help him or he can shut the fuck up and go away. He went away. Silly man. Who cares if you are from the ghetto it does not mean you can fight.

I agree with your post. People think it is innate. Anybody can be rude and violent, but to fight is much different to fight at a high level.

[quote]Scrappy wrote:
realpeanutbutter wrote:
It reminds me of about a third of the retards who I over hear talking about the television show “The Ultimate Fighter.” They say shit like:

“I’m pretty ripped, I think I could handle my self in the ‘octagon’”

“I’d make a great UFC fighter because when I fight I just ‘rage’ and noone can stop me”
What the fuck?
-chris

I must hear this line 3 or 4 times every weekend. There is something about fighting that people thing is innate. But at the pro level, it involves so much very technical training. You rarely hear people say, “I’m ripped or big so I can be in the NFL” or “I can bench 405 so I know I can hit homeruns in MLB” “I’m tall so I can be in the NBA”

But with fighting, people always think they can fight cause they can hit the bag or throw a punch or they are strong or, my personal favorite, and most common in my experience…
“When I get mad, lookout! I get crazy!”

Needless to say I’m deathly scared of all my friends who don’t train and my girl’s friends, when they get mad they’re all crazy!!! I wonder who’s the ‘craziezt???’ I shudder thinking about it.
[/quote]

Unfortunately I had the dubious honor of getting into a friendly wrestling match at a party (Don’t ask) with one of these ‘crazy’ guys. He says he trains but I own him handily. then he says he would win in a “real” fight. So I say “Ok (entertain me!)” and then he warns…

“Are you sure? I just go crazy and rage dude!” and I’m like “sound good to me”

Then I own him there too, and at the time i sucked. And I didn’t even hit him once and we were in a “real” fight. regrets. But i did make him name 10 chocolate bars. Turns out there are tons of variaitons of kit kats that I don’t know about.

Gotta love “crazy” “raging” frat boys

-chris

[quote]sjfou wrote:
i havent started yet & i dont want go in half-assed. i feel like i’m going to die in my cardio sessions, but so what, strength & conditioning is all done alone so i need to have some goals to aim for so i know i’m training hard enough. plan from my coaches is am boxing in '07, am Muay Thai in '08 & pro MMA late '09…[/quote]

As far as you S&C is concerned; do some research on the concurrent periodization model. As a fighter you will have many qualities which you will need to develop on top of skill (strength - max, explosive, endurance ? speed, stamina, etc?), and the concurrent model is an ideal approach.

As far as your current capabilities are concerned; don’t wait until you are in “fight shape” until you get to the gym. Just pin your ears back and get to it, cause like peanutbutter said, you need to get in your mat time & ring time if you ever hope to be any good.

And I’m not sure I understand the logic behind you Boxing to Maui Thai progression. The blended skill of MMA is slightly more complex then just mashing together 2 separate disciplines ? at least in my experience. That?s like having a goal to be a kickboxer and you start with boxing for a while to learn to punch and then you take some other martial art to learn to kick, then jump into the kickboxing ring hoping to beat guys who have been doing kickboxing for the same amount of time you have spent learning two separate skills. Course I could just be talking out of my ass.

Also, where is your grappling training?

Visit here http://www.rosstraining.com it has some good info on combat sport training. Check the Articles section.

And on a side note: I love fighting the guys who supposedly “just rage”. As they wildly miss with their punches and as I’m twisting them into a pretzel, I always ask them when their wolverine like berserker mode is going to kick, you know?So I can be ready for it.

Tough, raging guys can be put to sleep too!

[quote]KneeBar wrote:

I love fighting the guys who supposedly “just rage”. As they wildly miss with their punches and as I’m twisting them into a pretzel, I always ask them when their wolverine like berserker mode is going to kick, you know?So I can be ready for it.

[/quote]

I always think of this fight whenever I hear the “I’ll rage out” quote:

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/aleksander/video/x8gax_aleksander-emelianenko-vs-james-tho

It’s an absolutely priceless moment.

That I know for sure unfortunately. Like peanutbutter I have tested my theories enough times that I’m embarressed about it. But I teach and sometimes people test you, and yes, when I was young I wreslted at a few parties and I know it’s stupid but I will use the I was young card. Thing is I’m really laid back and technical and I don’t like hurting people so it can be hard to go easy and control some people.

But even being laid back and going easy and them ‘going crazy’…even with them striking and me not striking, it’s not hard to control/submit a guy who doesn’t know anything and just ‘goes crazy’. In any event, I find badasses like DI wrestlers, good bjj and mma guys, real boxers never go around talking that kind of shit.

[quote]carter12 wrote:
Tough, raging guys can be put to sleep too![/quote]