T Nation

Fish Oil Really Healthy?

I’ve just gone through a million posts on fish oil and its beneficial qualities. I have also been doing alot of my own research and there are many people that state that it’s a double edged sword and how the anti-inflammation properties come at a long term price.

My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.

I am confident fish oil is good, but I wouldnt overdo it in any area except alcohol (LOL) I am not a fish person, so I do think that supplementation is good. If you eat fish 1-2 times a week u should be ok, but to me Flameout is great and its not expensive, try it out for a few months and see how you feel…than decide

If they’d store the stuff in the refrigerator, I’d think stability would be much less of an issue, no more then it is for whole fish in fact. I always keep mine in the reefer, for that very reason.

Have you read this?

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-035-diet

It would be impossible to reap all those benefits by eating whole fish alone. Unless you’re a seal. Then there’s the mercury issues with whole fish:

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-148-diet

I tried storing my Flameout in the fridge but all the pills stuck together like a big brick. It was a bitch shaking the bottle to try to get some of them to separate.

[quote]conorh wrote:
If they’d store the stuff in the refrigerator, I’d think stability would be much less of an issue, no more then it is for whole fish in fact. I always keep mine in the reefer, for that very reason.[/quote]

[quote]Damici wrote:
I tried storing my Flameout in the fridge but all the pills stuck together like a big brick. It was a bitch shaking the bottle to try to get some of them to separate.

conorh wrote:
If they’d store the stuff in the refrigerator, I’d think stability would be much less of an issue, no more then it is for whole fish in fact. I always keep mine in the reefer, for that very reason.

[/quote]

You must have had them at high heat before you put them in; that, or your fridge is on Eskimo setting.

I, along with every other person at Biotest, keeps them in the fridge with absolutely no problems.

[quote]PaleoMuscle wrote:
I’ve just gone through a million posts on fish oil and its beneficial qualities. I have also been doing alot of my own research and there are many people that state that it’s a double edged sword and how the anti-inflammation properties come at a long term price.

My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.[/quote]

Fish oils are probably problematic ONLY for those people susceptible to hemorrhagic stroke, as is anything that inhibits clotting (fish oils, aspirin, etc)

Furthermore, you could possibly get by eating whole fish, but you’d have to eat a whole lot, and unless it’s wild and not farm raised, it probably does you little good.

The fatty acid profiles of farm-raised fish (which constitute the bulk of the fish you get at grocery stores or restaurants) is completely different from wild fish.

[quote]TC wrote:
PaleoMuscle wrote:
I’ve just gone through a million posts on fish oil and its beneficial qualities. I have also been doing alot of my own research and there are many people that state that it’s a double edged sword and how the anti-inflammation properties come at a long term price.

My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.

Fish oils are probably problematic ONLY for those people susceptible to hemorrhagic stroke, as is anything that inhibits clotting (fish oils, aspirin, etc)

Furthermore, you could possibly get by eating whole fish, but you’d have to eat a whole lot, and unless it’s wild and not farm raised, it probably does you little good.

The fatty acid profiles of farm-raised fish (which constitute the bulk of the fish you get at grocery stores or restaurants) is completely different from wild fish.

[/quote]

But is it truly necessary to take it? Does it show to extend or improve my life in any way over not taking it? I plan on at least giving it a try for the sake of judging for myself.

You may like its effects, however it may do more harm in the long term. Do your research first. Study Dr. Peat’s “The Great Fish Oil Experiment” and read some essays here:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/

Don’t forget, these are highly unstable polyunsat’s that are heated at about 160-180 celcius (probably in a vaccuum though). I’m just curious as to whether these oils go rancid in the fish while cooking, or even in our own body.

If you take the fish oil, definitely take Vitamin E as a precaution.

[quote]PaleoMuscle wrote:
You may like its effects, however it may do more harm in the long term. Do your research first. Study Dr. Peat’s “The Great Fish Oil Experiment” and read some essays here:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/

Don’t forget, these are highly unstable polyunsat’s that are heated at about 160-180 celcius (probably in a vaccuum though). I’m just curious as to whether these oils go rancid in the fish while cooking, or even in our own body.

If you take the fish oil, definitely take Vitamin E as a precaution.[/quote]

The only way that you will run into trouble consuming large amounts of Fish Oil is if you buy the cheap brands. Many times we read on this very site about someone purchasing their supplements at Wal-Mart and bragging about all of the money that they saved. I always assume that these are younger guys who have not yet woken up to the reality that you get what you pay for.

The highly touted major brands by reputable companies such as “Flameout” by Biotest will only improve your health in many ways.

I have been taking 6G to 9G of Fish Oil daily for about 6 years now and my blood lipid profile has improved because of it. I have a higher HDL (good cholesterol) and a lower LDL (bad cholesterol) as a direct result of my fish oil consumption. This is something that training alone could not produce.

On top of that fish oil acts as a blood thinner.

Why is that good?

Well, some very smart folks attribute thinner blood to less of a chance of blood clotting and heart attack. That’s one reason that most doctors recommend taking one baby aspirin per day, as it thins the blood.

I guess doctors don’t always get it wrong huh?

Seriously, if you consume fish oil and a little vitamin E most can skip the aspirin and have a great amount of heart protection naturally!

And then there are the actual bodybuilding benefits of fish oil… I could go on but I won’t.

I personally feel that the greatest product that Biotest has yet to deliver to the market place is “Flameout.” And I highly recommend it. It’s not just a bodybuilding supplement but as a health aid to assist you in living a longer and healthier life.

All the best,

Zeb

[quote]TC wrote:
Damici wrote:
I tried storing my Flameout in the fridge but all the pills stuck together like a big brick. It was a bitch shaking the bottle to try to get some of them to separate.

conorh wrote:
If they’d store the stuff in the refrigerator, I’d think stability would be much less of an issue, no more then it is for whole fish in fact. I always keep mine in the reefer, for that very reason.

You must have had them at high heat before you put them in; that, or your fridge is on Eskimo setting.

I, along with every other person at Biotest, keeps them in the fridge with absolutely no problems.

[/quote]

Put them on the fridge door.

The MD who takes care of the Pittsburg Steelers did one hour on the radio with Dr Kenneth Cooper(the father of aerobics). Go to the Cooper Wellness site, on the left side click radio shows, then click listen to past shows, go to May 10th(I believe it was) and you will know more science and results on fish oil than you ever thought possible. I take 1000 up to 12 @ day for recuperation, pain and anabolic use. Also see a past article from Coach Poliquin on eth same. Do not let let anyone BS you away from Fish Oil. CP says it is one of the best natural anabolics.

[quote]mike08042 wrote:
TC wrote:
PaleoMuscle wrote:
I’ve just gone through a million posts on fish oil and its beneficial qualities. I have also been doing alot of my own research and there are many people that state that it’s a double edged sword and how the anti-inflammation properties come at a long term price.

My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.

Fish oils are probably problematic ONLY for those people susceptible to hemorrhagic stroke, as is anything that inhibits clotting (fish oils, aspirin, etc)

Furthermore, you could possibly get by eating whole fish, but you’d have to eat a whole lot, and unless it’s wild and not farm raised, it probably does you little good.

The fatty acid profiles of farm-raised fish (which constitute the bulk of the fish you get at grocery stores or restaurants) is completely different from wild fish.

But is it truly necessary to take it? Does it show to extend or improve my life in any way over not taking it? I plan on at least giving it a try for the sake of judging for myself.
[/quote]

The GISSI Trial Prevenzione Trial was a 3.5 year study that enrolled 11,324 people (who had previously suffered from heart attacks). The people in the study that received 1 gram of fish oil had a 45% reduction in sudden death from heart attacks and a 20% reduction in overall death.

[quote]
My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.[/quote]

What makes you think that the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) from a fish oil supplement would be any less/more stable than PUFA from whole fish once it is in you system??

If the reactivity of the PUFA is a concern then you could consider taking your fish oil with some high quality unrefined extra virgin olive oil. The antioxidant properties of the polyphenols would help protect against free radical damage. You could also use a whole food antioxidant supplement that has a high ORAC (Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity).

[quote]ZEB wrote:
The only way that you will run into trouble consuming large amounts of Fish Oil is if you buy the cheap brands. Many times we read on this very site about someone purchasing their supplements at Wal-Mart and bragging about all of the money that they saved. I always assume that these are younger guys who have not yet woken up to the reality that you get what you pay for.

The highly touted major brands by reputable companies such as “Flameout” by Biotest will only improve your health in many ways.

I have been taking 6G to 9G of Fish Oil daily for about 6 years now and my blood lipid profile has improved because of it. I have a higher HDL (good cholesterol) and a lower LDL (bad cholesterol) as a direct result of my fish oil consumption. This is something that training alone could not produce.

On top of that fish oil acts as a blood thinner.

Why is that good?

Well, some very smart folks attribute thinner blood to less of a chance of blood clotting and heart attack. That’s one reason that most doctors recommend taking one baby aspirin per day, as it thins the blood.

I guess doctors don’t always get it wrong huh?

Seriously, if you consume fish oil and a little vitamin E most can skip the aspirin and have a great amount of heart protection naturally!

And then there are the actual bodybuilding benefits of fish oil… I could go on but I won’t.

I personally feel that the greatest product that Biotest has yet to deliver to the market place is “Flameout.” And I highly recommend it. It’s not just a bodybuilding supplement but as a health aid to assist you in living a longer and healthier life.

All the best,

Zeb[/quote]

The one weakness of this board is the constant promotion of the supplements that it sells. I have no idea what Flameout is (nor do I care) but there are high quality pharmaceutical brands out there such as Carlson’s, Ascenta Health, Genestra, etc. No, you can’t buy these at Wal-Mart.

You can run into huge problems with large doses of fish oil. There is a threshold of benefits and those can quickly turn into things that will harm your body. That’s great that your health has improved, etc. but having a high ration of omega 3’s can be alot worse for you than the same for omega 6’s.

I’m not trying to knock fish oil at all, but I just don’t think it’s proven that it’s safe long term.

[quote]mroussell wrote:
mike08042 wrote:
TC wrote:
PaleoMuscle wrote:
I’ve just gone through a million posts on fish oil and its beneficial qualities. I have also been doing alot of my own research and there are many people that state that it’s a double edged sword and how the anti-inflammation properties come at a long term price.

My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.

Fish oils are probably problematic ONLY for those people susceptible to hemorrhagic stroke, as is anything that inhibits clotting (fish oils, aspirin, etc)

Furthermore, you could possibly get by eating whole fish, but you’d have to eat a whole lot, and unless it’s wild and not farm raised, it probably does you little good.

The fatty acid profiles of farm-raised fish (which constitute the bulk of the fish you get at grocery stores or restaurants) is completely different from wild fish.

But is it truly necessary to take it? Does it show to extend or improve my life in any way over not taking it? I plan on at least giving it a try for the sake of judging for myself.

The GISSI Trial Prevenzione Trial was a 3.5 year study that enrolled 11,324 people (who had previously suffered from heart attacks). The people in the study that received 1 gram of fish oil had a 45% reduction in sudden death from heart attacks and a 20% reduction in overall death.

My biggest concern is the oxidation of this highly unstable polyunsat. Could fish oil cause more harm than good.

Probably best to eat whole fish.

What makes you think that the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) from a fish oil supplement would be any less/more stable than PUFA from whole fish once it is in you system??

If the reactivity of the PUFA is a concern then you could consider taking your fish oil with some high quality unrefined extra virgin olive oil. The antioxidant properties of the polyphenols would help protect against free radical damage. You could also use a whole food antioxidant supplement that has a high ORAC (Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity).[/quote]

Good question. The PUFA’s in whole fish should oxidize just the same and become rancid. But we’re comparing a highly concentrated source of one fatty acid without any of its supporting structures vs. whole fish with other things (vitamins, other fats, etc…maybe elements that science has yet to even isolate). Perhaps eating whole fish helps protect us even more.

I’m not knocking the fish oil…there may be a place for it. However, as all supplements, I think much much more can be gained from the source.

As for the mercury etc., that is a minor threat from smaller fish such as sardines, herring, mackerel, salmon, etc. I don’t eat tuna for that very reason, not to mention its lack of fats.

“The one weakness of this board is the constant promotion of the supplements that it sells. I have no idea what Flameout is (nor do I care) but there are high quality pharmaceutical brands out there such as Carlson’s, Ascenta Health, Genestra, etc. No, you can’t buy these at Wal-Mart.”

I wonder why they would possibly promote the supplements it sells.

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
“The one weakness of this board is the constant promotion of the supplements that it sells. I have no idea what Flameout is (nor do I care) but there are high quality pharmaceutical brands out there such as Carlson’s, Ascenta Health, Genestra, etc. No, you can’t buy these at Wal-Mart.”

I wonder why they would possibly promote the supplements it sells. [/quote]

I didn’t say i’m wondering why, i’m saying it’s a weakness/bias.

I agree with your premise to some degree. Recommending high doses of something that oxidizes rather quickly doesn’t seem too inspiring.

I’ve read a number of anecdotal reports of people having negative affects to fish oils. Highest on the list were problems with acne and anxiety.

There’s a few mental health forums I visit once in a while with many people experimenting with different supplement cocktails to improve mood. The response rate is very low with Omega 3’s. That’s not to say many people haven’t gotten better. I just think it’s overhyped. Perhaps the most overhyped supplement in the last 10 years.

Many of the people I know taking it, take it because they were told it is healthy, to cover the bases per se, without noticing any of the original improvements they were told it would do.

[quote]PaleoMuscle wrote:
ZEB wrote:
The only way that you will run into trouble consuming large amounts of Fish Oil is if you buy the cheap brands. Many times we read on this very site about someone purchasing their supplements at Wal-Mart and bragging about all of the money that they saved. I always assume that these are younger guys who have not yet woken up to the reality that you get what you pay for.

The highly touted major brands by reputable companies such as “Flameout” by Biotest will only improve your health in many ways.

I have been taking 6G to 9G of Fish Oil daily for about 6 years now and my blood lipid profile has improved because of it. I have a higher HDL (good cholesterol) and a lower LDL (bad cholesterol) as a direct result of my fish oil consumption. This is something that training alone could not produce.

On top of that fish oil acts as a blood thinner.

Why is that good?

Well, some very smart folks attribute thinner blood to less of a chance of blood clotting and heart attack. That’s one reason that most doctors recommend taking one baby aspirin per day, as it thins the blood.

I guess doctors don’t always get it wrong huh?

Seriously, if you consume fish oil and a little vitamin E most can skip the aspirin and have a great amount of heart protection naturally!

And then there are the actual bodybuilding benefits of fish oil… I could go on but I won’t.

I personally feel that the greatest product that Biotest has yet to deliver to the market place is “Flameout.” And I highly recommend it. It’s not just a bodybuilding supplement but as a health aid to assist you in living a longer and healthier life.

All the best,

Zeb

The one weakness of this board is the constant promotion of the supplements that it sells. I have no idea what Flameout is (nor do I care) but there are high quality pharmaceutical brands out there such as Carlson’s, Ascenta Health, Genestra, etc. No, you can’t buy these at Wal-Mart.

You can run into huge problems with large doses of fish oil. There is a threshold of benefits and those can quickly turn into things that will harm your body. That’s great that your health has improved, etc. but having a high ration of omega 3’s can be alot worse for you than the same for omega 6’s.

I’m not trying to knock fish oil at all, but I just don’t think it’s proven that it’s safe long term.

[/quote]

You are making some critical errors.

First, should I, as a member of T-Nation, NOT promote a product that I know works simply because it is sold by Biotest? I did in fact mention that there are “highly touted major brands” that should be purchased.

However, should I encourage others to take products that I have never taken and know little about?

Furthermore, doesn’t it make sense that anyone who hangs out here on a regular basis and buys Biotest products would recommend them? They work, are reasonably priced and are of the highest quality.

Are we supposed to NOT mention any Biotest brand simply to make visitors like you feel better?

Finally, I want to see your studies on the dangers of fish oil. I have no knowledge of such information. However, I do have plenty of information regarding the benefits of said supplement.

And as I said I have taken high doses for about six years with great results!

[quote]ZEB wrote:

You are making some critical errors.

First, should I, as a member of T-Nation, NOT promote a product that I know works simply because it is sold by Biotest? I did in fact mention that there are “highly touted major brands” that should be purchased.

However, should I encourage others to take products that I have never taken and know little about?

Furthermore, doesn’t it make sense that anyone who hangs out here on a regular basis and buys Biotest products would recommend them? They work, are reasonably priced and are of the highest quality.

Are we supposed to NOT mention any Biotest brand simply to make visitors like you feel better?

Finally, I want to see your studies on the dangers of fish oil. I have no knowledge of such information. However, I do have plenty of information regarding the benefits of said supplement.

And as I said I have taken high doses for about six years with great results!
[/quote]

I really don’t care about the supplement pushing. If it is what funds this site, the more power to you. There are more people and posts here than usenet so i’m not complaining. HOWEVER, the bias to me seems that because it sells fish oil, it will do everything in its power to discredit any info suggesting that it is not so healthy afterall…even if it is valid info. But I guess the same can be said for casein causing cancer etc. Perhaps the difference between this site and others are that this one is preoccupied with muscle growth predominately and not health and well being overall.

As for the negatives on fish oil. I have provided a link – go through and read the various essays. Look up Dr. Peat and his July 2005 newsletter entitled the “Great Fish Oil Experiment”. Or PM me your email and i’ll send it to you. Also check out usenet and look up what some of the various academics have to say about it.

As I said, i’m not knocking fish oil. However, I think people should do a little more research instead of taking it because people tell them it’s so healthy. I encourage others to do the same with ALL supplements, not just this one.

The most important parameter of “studies” is to first determine who is PAYING for the study.