T Nation

Fish Oil - Mega Dose?

Hi guys,

Same topic revisited again and again and again I know.

However whenever I read the posts on this they usually seem to go nowhere, mainly with most people agreeing that fish oil intake and its results vary hugely depending on too many factors.

I see novagreg on the clinic is taking 12 Flameout and 25 normal fish oil caps / day.

That works out at around 50-75 regular fish oil caps / day.

Does that seem ridiculously high to anyone else?

Im a similar �??type�?? to novagreg, and am about to start supping fish oil softgels.

What are the calorific value of these things?

Cant be a lot, but if you take 75 a day it adds up!

I generally want to build muscle without adding too much fat, and the general benefits of fish oil.

If you need more info to give me good advice please ask.

However im really just wondering if mega dose fish oil really does that much more than a moderate does, and if that mega dose should contribute towards your calories count.

Cheers!

[quote]chutec wrote:

I generally want to build muscle without adding too much fat[/quote]

Does your body use carbs or fat for energy?

If you are going the carb route, you could get away with a lot less fish oil, just a couple doses a day, because you’re not eating much fat during the day. Fat blunts the insulin response, and when you’re trying to gain muscle you want that anabolic response going all the time.

If you are using fat for energy (like Novagreg) you’ll be getting a huge amount of fat in your diet, and a good 1/4 of that should be fish oils. Fish oils have the side benefit of being the best fat specifically for losing weight and restoring insulin sensitivity in low-carb individuals.

It’s less about “superdosing” and more about balancing your lipid profiles. You wouldn’t want ALL your fat to come from Omega-3’s. Although in the short term, most people are hugely deficient in EPA/DHA and would benefit from 30g or more of fish oils until they get their diets in order.

-Sab

awesome response, thats the kind of thing i was looking for!!

30g of fish oil - how does that translate into the softgels?

add DHAs to EPAs = total gram?

or is it the total gram of the capsule?

im on a high fat diet, and i have no problems eating enough total fat what with egg yolks, olive oil, nuts, avacados.

however i feel that i am missing this ‘balance’ by not including flax oil and fish oil in great enough quantities.

is it as simple as saying 1 gram of flaxseed (oil or meal) = 1 gram of olive oil = 1 gram of fish oil?

obviously the form that the product takes (meal/oil/caps) is mportant?

i would guess that just being aware and including all fats in your diet will lead you to a rough balance.

scrap all the above i found the answers.

however what i could not find is the relative nutritional info on fish oil caps.

obviously it varies from cap to cap…but say the omega 3 caps from myprotein.co.uk…fairly standard - 300mg of the combined DHA EPA…how many calories and grams of fat are we talking about here?

goddamn it, that was me posting as ‘liston’ , my bloody flatmate left himself logged onto my computer ;]

I did this once last week after about 2 weeks of low carbs. I shat myself twice before noon, and it smelled like rancid beach. I immediately discontinued the protocol and puckered my ass all day. And it was my birthday.

So, health benefits may be what they may be, but be warned.

I’m actually going to conduct this experiment on myself. 10 Flameout a day and 25 GNC Fish Oil caps a day, and see if it helps me lean out, along with a low-carb diet. CT recommends mega-dosing for anyone over 12% BF, so I’ll see how it goes.

[quote]chutec wrote:
awesome response, thats the kind of thing i was looking for!!

30g of fish oil - how does that translate into the softgels?

add DHAs to EPAs = total gram?

or is it the total gram of the capsule?

im on a high fat diet, and i have no problems eating enough total fat what with egg yolks, olive oil, nuts, avacados.

however i feel that i am missing this ‘balance’ by not including flax oil and fish oil in great enough quantities.

is it as simple as saying 1 gram of flaxseed (oil or meal) = 1 gram of olive oil = 1 gram of fish oil?

obviously the form that the product takes (meal/oil/caps) is mportant?

i would guess that just being aware and including all fats in your diet will lead you to a rough balance.[/quote]

mate,

There are a lot of contextual elements to consider when it comes to your omega 3 supplementation. While there are a tremendous amount of benefits of supplementing with fish oil we need to take into consideration what your ultimate goals are. Seeing as you are trying to gain, super dosing with fish oils is not the best approach as o3s are anti-inflammatories and reduce injured muscles “inflamed” state - which is counter-productive to muscle gain.

Inflammation, when it comes to the post-workout state of being, is a good thing. It means the body is pumping blood into the muscle to deal with the trauma. You just need to make sure your body has the right nutrients to support the repair. Super-dosing with anti-inflamatories means that you are reducing that attention.

In terms of the other guy who I imagine is following some sort of very low-carb, cyclical diet, the super-dosing of o3s makes a little more sense as the benefits one gets from o3s is actually in line with fat loss - it actually improves the bodies release of stored fat. Also, as he is in a calorically deprived state, he needs to guard against the body shutting down its release of stored fatty acids. While it’s not necessarily the most cost-effective approach in my opinion, it does ensure that the body is getting the fat it needs from diet while helping with cholesterol and other issues o3s help with.

Finally, I would steer away from flaxseed oil supplementation and source the majority of your o3s from fish and krill oil. Flaxseed oil is too tough for the body to process and the amount EPA and DHA your body actually gets from its supplementation is quite low.

Hope that helps but shoot back with any questions.

Sasha

Fish oil “megadosing” rules. I’ve been taking 2-4 tablespoons of fish oil per day for most 2007, and I’m still doing it.

I think they’ve played a large part in my gains this year, went from:
88kg @ 14.5% bodyfat in april to
97kg @ 13.9% bodyfat in december
(That’s a gain of 700g of fat, and 8300g of muscle).

18lb of muscles, 1.5lb of fat!

I can only imagine if I had been eating 100% clean :wink:

[quote]steinnes wrote:
Fish oil “megadosing” rules. I’ve been taking 2-4 tablespoons of fish oil per day for most 2007, and I’m still doing it.

I think they’ve played a large part in my gains this year, went from:
88kg @ 14.5% bodyfat in april to
97kg @ 13.9% bodyfat in december
(That’s a gain of 700g of fat, and 8300g of muscle).

18lb of muscles, 1.5lb of fat!

I can only imagine if I had been eating 100% clean :wink:
[/quote]

I have a pretty large supply of fish oil myself but wasn’t aware of the need to increase doses based on weight, and, now I’m pissed about what I missed out on…anyways your post gives me an idea of what might happen to me.

I usually take it so in a month I finish at least 1000ml of oil.

Now, I’m a reasonably big guy, and I’m sure I could benefit from more, but this regiment definitely did not hinder my progress.

Diet-wise I’ve been just trying my best (traveling due to work at least once per month, sometimes for 7+ days at a time really can fuck your progress up – or at least make you feel like it’s getting fucked up!). I would say I followed three different types of diets 7/8 of these months:

  1. Low-carb:
    no carbs at all except during and post workout
    Once every 7-10 days, I’d have a carb-up meal.
  2. Semi-low carb:
    No carbs at all except some oats+flax added to my breakfast, and then during and post workout
  3. Moderate carb:
    No carbs during evenings, tried to keep the carbs low during the afternoon, but not religious about it.

The entire time I did 3 days per week total body workouts, and would maybe throw in an extra day every couple of weeks for a little cardio, but I was definitely too lazy with my cardio. Protein intake was 200g or more the entire time, and I would review my food intake every couple of weeks (look back at what I ate the 2 days before) to see if I was stepping out of bounds anywhere.

Besides the fish oil I used on/off some crappy fatburners, creatine, tribulus, zma, multivitamin, Rez-V, and of course protein powders.

The only constant supplement through-out was my fish oil, and during travels I gobbled up omega-3 capsules (from fish oil, not flax) to try and keep the intake up.

[quote]Steel88 wrote:
steinnes wrote:
Fish oil “megadosing” rules. I’ve been taking 2-4 tablespoons of fish oil per day for most 2007, and I’m still doing it.

I think they’ve played a large part in my gains this year, went from:
88kg @ 14.5% bodyfat in april to
97kg @ 13.9% bodyfat in december
(That’s a gain of 700g of fat, and 8300g of muscle).

18lb of muscles, 1.5lb of fat!

I can only imagine if I had been eating 100% clean :wink:

I have a pretty large supply of fish oil myself but wasn’t aware of the need to increase doses based on weight, and, now I’m pissed about what I missed out on…anyways your post gives me an idea of what might happen to me.[/quote]

Hard work and deidication is what gave him those gains, the fish oil is only a small, but beneficial factor. Don’t expect thost kind of gains form just supplmenting with fish oil. I’d say whey protein and creatine are more beneficial in muscle building than fish oil.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

Hard work and deidication is what gave him those gains, the fish oil is only a small, but beneficial factor. Don’t expect thost kind of gains form just supplmenting with fish oil. I’d say whey protein and creatine are more beneficial in muscle building than fish oil.

[/quote]

Thank you for pointing this out :slight_smile:

This is completely true – the only thing I can definitely claim is that fish oil does not hinder progress. And we might be able to conclude that it gives an edge. However I assume my gains would have been good even without it.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Steel88 wrote:
steinnes wrote:
Fish oil “megadosing” rules. I’ve been taking 2-4 tablespoons of fish oil per day for most 2007, and I’m still doing it.

I think they’ve played a large part in my gains this year, went from:
88kg @ 14.5% bodyfat in april to
97kg @ 13.9% bodyfat in december
(That’s a gain of 700g of fat, and 8300g of muscle).

18lb of muscles, 1.5lb of fat!

I can only imagine if I had been eating 100% clean :wink:

I have a pretty large supply of fish oil myself but wasn’t aware of the need to increase doses based on weight, and, now I’m pissed about what I missed out on…anyways your post gives me an idea of what might happen to me.

Hard work and deidication is what gave him those gains, the fish oil is only a small, but beneficial factor. Don’t expect thost kind of gains form just supplmenting with fish oil. I’d say whey protein and creatine are more beneficial in muscle building than fish oil.

[/quote]

Yeah, I’m well aware of that, but, its just that I’m trying to make sure that I get 100% out of my diet just as I get 120% out of the gym. For me it’s all about getting every single little edge that I can because I’m real hungry for the leanness and strength ya know? :confused:

[quote]Steel88 wrote:
I’m real hungry for the leanness and strength ya know? :/[/quote]

Ya, that never goes away no matter how big or strong you get lol.

I’d say go for it. But don’t go for it because I say so, do it because Charles Poliquin says so :wink:

There is a scientific grounding for why it should help pack on muscle, unfortunately there aren’t any proper studies that I know of.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Steel88 wrote:
I’m real hungry for the leanness and strength ya know? :confused:

Ya, that never goes away no matter how big or strong you get lol.

[/quote]

Unfortunately :slight_smile:

I tend to find that when I take more than about 5g of fish oil a day I start to get blood in my snot, which concerns me a bit. No one have this problem?

I’ve had that problem on/off since forever… so I didn’t associate it with the fish oil…

[quote]Spaniel wrote:
I tend to find that when I take more than about 5g of fish oil a day I start to get blood in my snot, which concerns me a bit. No one have this problem?[/quote]

Found this while researching the evils of flax seed oil and thinking of your post:

�??Very large intakes of fish oil/omega-3 fatty acids (�??Eskimo�?? amounts) may increase the risk of hemorrhagic (bleeding) stroke. High doses have also been associated with nosebleed and blood in the urine. Fish oils appear to decrease platelet aggregation and prolong bleeding time, increase fibrinolysis (breaking down of blood clots), and may reduce von Willebrand factor.�??

http://www.supplementquality.com/efficacy/fishoil_flaxoil.html

Now I am no medical expert but I think preventing blood clotting is good.

You just bleed a little longer and sometimes through the nose.

Should not happen at 5g per day though.