Fiscal Conservatism?

Which was?

The two issues you were conflating … duh (I don’t have much to add … I’ve only been popping in and out but great conversation so far … much better than some past ones from all sides).

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Those drugs are just plain horseshit. Pure and simply- You don’t treat addiction with the substance. It simply does not work.

You treat it with detox and therapy. If there are underlying issues like depression or schizophrenia, they should be treated accordingly.

Believe me. I’ve been there, done that, and seen enough people to fill a major city sized arena die trying to avoid this very simple fact.

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No offense but that’s simply not true. Cold turkey takes a minimum of 6 weeks. 6 really horrible weeks. Unbearable in moat cases. Depends on how deep in you are.
Weaning down on detox meds is the most successful method to date. There are better methods, but most are not available here.

Opiate addiction and socialized medicine. I was only talking about opiate addiction.

Then you were arguing with yourself. I merely don’t want the taxpayer paying for drug addicts, I couldn’t really care less if they want to keep ruining their lives if they pay for it themselves

Yes it is.

And 6 weeks? Try 3 days, maybe 5, after that its all about what’s going on in the head. I know, because I’ve done it.

And successful by what measure? Completed treatment, sure. Continual sobriety beyond a year or 5? No fucking way.

In fact, what the cool kids do now is take the subutex to avoid detox at work then fix up when they get done. Then there’s staying on the meds for as long as when ever and throwing a tantrum and using again once their course of treatment is discontinued.

Clean is clean plain and simple. Using is not.

Including that in a universal healthcare system is just begging for an army of people that are trying to indefinitely postpone detox at the expense of the public.

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I wasn’t arguing.

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2-5 days? If that’s all it took you I would hardly say you were heavily addicted. Standard detox for heavy users can go as long as 6 months.

I am on both sides of the issue because opiates saved my life during a period of time lasting over 4 years where nothing else could keep me fuctioning.
They were also murder to get off. I was on day 14 before I finally got help.
For those that don’t know, imagine a a severe flu lasting for 2 weeks and your not getting better.
Your mouth is connected to your asshole and you can’t sleep, you can’t eat and you are both extremely hot and extremely cold at the same time sweating like a pig, with no relief in sight.
Light short use, sure 2 weeks and you’re clean. Years of heavy duty drugs to keep you on your feet, a lot less easy.
I am not going to reveal what I was prescribed and the amount I was prescribed. But I have a genetic predisposition to having a high tolerance to opiates (yes, I was tested), and I needed massive doses to get effective releaf. Without which, I would have been on extended disability. So, no I don’t want the government involved with my dr. And I want detox drugs readily available.

No it isn’t. That is not how narcotics work. They have a very short half life and leave your system pretty quickly, hence the severity of the detox.

Short half life and fast exit (like heroin, etc.)= severe detox.

Long half life and very slow exit (like marijuana)= negligible detox.

On the other hand- rehab, which is psychological treatment may last up to 6 mos. There is also an adjustment period where you don’t feel good (not high) that takes a while before you feel normal not being high, but that isn’t detox either. That is just getting re acclimated to being normal.

Sorry that you became incidentally addicted to opioids, but what you describe is like nothing I’ve ever experienced (and believe me, the only thing I did to greater excess than coke was pills and heroin-constantly, for years.) or even heard of. I’m afraid we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I’m just more along the lines of “heres some ginger ale, there’s the toilet. Those are your feet, get the fuck back on them.”.

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Well, I for one am glad you both have won your battles. Happy Easter, gentlemen.

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You sound educated about the subject matter but it happens occasionally. We are talking about neural stuff; cravings, urges, compulsions and not all necessarily bad stuff. Discipline, pain and motivation plays a role in curbing the habit too.

I’m trying to say that reward recognition and sedition works too.