T Nation

First Visit to an Endo Due to Low T Levels


#1

Hello guys, thanks in advance for the reply. First time posting but trying to read and absorb all the important info in this forum. The lab results are from last week, I will def. ask at drs. office for the first they took (1 yr and half ago) and post them here later. Let's start with the stats:

-age: 32 y/0
-height: 6'0
-waist: 35
-weight: 240ish
-describe body and facial hair: facial: thick , grows fast. Body hair has increased since I started my 30's, not very hairy but its all over my body.
-describe where you carry fat and how changed: always been in same area lower pec, bf% has decreased after a carb timing diet I started couple of months ago
-health conditions, symptoms [history]: Low T levels
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: no
-- real dangers! see this http://propeciahelp.com/overvi...
-lab results with ranges: last lab tests 1 week ago:
( the ones that I'm concerned about)

TESTOSTERONE FREE, 6.9 PG/ML (8.7-25.1)
TESTOSTERONE SERUM 504 NG/DL (348-1197)

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]: high protein, moderate good fats, moderate complex carbs, low or 0 simple carbs (sugars)
-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]: 4-5 days intense but short, compound movements, progression of weight.
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? no
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed : I will say morning woods 3- 4 times a week, at one time it was daily.

This is a brief explanation of what is going on.....1 year and a half ago I did a very "basic" steroid cycle, 10 weeks 500mg of test cyp, used AI during cycle, and HCG, and used Nolvadex 4 weeks 40/40/20/20 as post cycle...anyways after 2 month of that was feeling tiered, specially in the afternoons, so I did lab tests, and T levels were very low at that time (105), dr. started HRT with Androgel 1% 6 pumps. During this year and a half, the T levels have been increasing in the different lab tests I made, and the dosage of Androgel was reduce. Now I'm using 2 pumps (since last year). The idea of my primary DR. was to decrease it until I just dont use it anymore.

During this time I really never had any major issue, The most important is really bad lethargy (I dont' want to move form the couch)specially in the afternoons after work, and specially when I dont go to work out (days off from gym). When I'm on the gym I always feel great and ready to lift heavy. Libido is good, morning woods are like every other day. I lost some weight but I'm assuming (hoping) is bf% and water from my new diet (I'm assuming this because I lost a size in pants, but my lifts are increasing in the gym and measurements of arms, chest are same).

My main concern is T levels are really not as they should be. After 1 year and a half using Androgel, I think they should be normal. I suffer from anxiety disorders as well and being a bodybuilder just makes me crazy the idea of having low T levels knowing that all the hard work at the gym, diet and supplements can be affected by my low t levels. My main concern is how much better (strength and size) I can be if I had normal T levels. And I read different things on this. My primary DR. believes that you don't need to be on the high end of the range of T levels, that you can live and be the best of you in the T levels that genetically you have, is that true?,

I went for the first time to an endo last week, and yes he was an idiot....had to first talk with a nurse and then nurse practitioner to finally talk with him, I just think this is not something I want to discuss with everyone, but anywways he gave me 2 options: 1) Assume that I have Hypogonadism and continue with HRT all my life, he told me that he works with Androgel only because shots gives you a rise and a peak for some days and then goes low again, so he wouldn't prescribe me shots (he made that clear). 2) 6 weeks off Androgel and do labs after that to see If I really have hypogonadism or it was just the effect of the cycle (I told him that I took some test booster pills OTC).

My questions are:

1) Should I continue with the primary DR's. idea "tappering off" Androgel and see if I go above normal "someday" and then go off any HRT?

2) Should I assumed by my numbers that are low after already year and a half with Androgel, that maybe I have hypogonadism either because of genetics or after the cycle. and should I continue the HRT avoiding 6 weeks off the Androgel?

3) If I decide to do the HRT should I find a DR. that can prescribe injections instead of Androgel? Or is this guy right and shots spike fast but then you get a crash?

4) If I decide to take the lab tests after the hiatus of Androgel, I was thinking to "tapper it off" gradually not "cold turkey" like he told me, maybe reduce to 1 pump daily and then 1 pump every other day, what are your thoughts?

5) Finally, how much do you think guys will affect me those 6 weeks off Androgel,this Dr. wants me to be, in terms of mood, libido, and specially muscle mass / fat?

Thank you so much for any piece adivce, I hope I din't bored you guys, really looking forward for replies, and I'm sorry If I made any grammar mistake, as english is not my first language (is the 3rd langauge I learned so I prob. made some mistakes).


#2

Your doctor is an idiot. You need to post your labs and read the advice for new guys status and thyroid basics. Do not taper off the gel. Find a doctor who knows what he is talking about and since you already on T switch to shots an follow the protocol listed here in protocol for Injections. When you inject more frequently at a lower dose you stop some of the ups and downs. I did not get spikes when injecting weekly but some do. Bottom line u need a new doctor or to trane this one!!

As posted below i didn’t read your post fully. i am sorry. if the gel works for you gel is fine. its your choice but you need to tell both your doctors to beat it. thay are not helping you and actually i think they are hurting you… If you want off T then try a restart


#3

U could be having effects from the cycle or thyroid problems

U need these labs for thyroid

Ft3
Ft4
Tsh
Tpo
Tgab
And might as well look at rt3

Did u test lh and fsh prior to starting trt?

edit: I am sorry i did not read youur post fully and have not been feeling well. I have no idea why your doctor have you tapering off?? you will be SHUT DOWN… this is a dumb move… your T levels are low because he made them low!! In order to get off T of any kind you must get on hcg and taper off of a serm. sound like you know more then your doc so why are you listening to his dumb ass?? Your Endo is also an idiot…

240 ilbs ? Have you checked you e2 levels?


#4

Thanks for the fast reply, what you mean with restart?, I’m 240lbs and 13bf%, so it’s muscle mass not water or fat, I’m a bodybuilder. So I shouldn’t test my T levels w/o Androgel to see if I really have Hypogonadism or it was just a side effect of the cycle? thanks!


#5

I mean add hcg get ur balls working again then add clomid/ nolvadex to get the Htpa working then taper off and after a bit of time retest your fsh lh and all labs to see if it restarts. Do not drop off T estrogen will take over your t receptors and that will be another problem which you may already have cause your doc is dumb. You need to test e2 and list everything you got here. Ask ksman or look up Htpa restart in the search box for info. You prolly will need an Ai also once again I am just a guy trying to help not a hormone expert but I know what I saying is true


#6

I’m not going to give you doses cause I am not a doctor or a pro. you nee to be careful with high dose serms as it may desensitize lh fsh receptors and kill ur Htpa…


#7

So I went back to my primary doctor and he finally agree to start with shots. Test Cyp 100 mg per week, in 4 weeks Ill post lab results also will ask to check thyroids, I never checked that. I have a couple of questions?

  1. He didn’t mention anything regarding AI or HCG (I think many DR.s they don’t mention that, I wonder why??), I still have some Arimidex left, should I start taking that or should I wait 4 weeks do the labs and see how my E2 is and convinced DR to prescribe Arimidex (if its high)?

  2. I know HCG works great, specially with nuts shrinkage, but it looks like aside T replacement clinics, Drs. don’t recommend that for some reason, is it safe for a long time use?, cause I know TRT is going to be for life, is there any side effect of that (LH desensitization)?

Finally,

  1. Been using Androgel (I’M GLAD I’M CHANGING TO SHOTS!!) for quite sometime now, been reading also alot about Androgel users, why the TRT protocol with Androgel doesn’t include HCG and AI but with shots is almost a must?

Thanks so much in advance!


#8

Lh and fsh were not tested?

If the gel wasn’t working you may have a thyroid problem. I believe I already said this.

Oh well you’re gonna do what you want so good luck.

Hcg and Ai seem to matter a lot for some. If your doctor isn’t a good trt doctor I need to find another one… You will learn