T Nation

First Timer with Epistane


I have been following this site for a while and have been reading a lot on PH. I have chosen a PH because I do not have access to the real stuff. I would just like some feed back so I can can a successful first time.

I plan on buying 200 tabs of liv52, 200 caps of 500 mg milk thistle, and 200 caps of 1000 mg of taurine, 2 bottles of ibe epistane, and nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate - UK Generic. I was gonna get 180 tablets of 10mg each for about 70 dollars. Does anyone know if that seems right? I checked other resources but they were all out of nolvadex. I got so much stuff I will have tons of extras. I was also wondering if I should purchase Biotest TRIBEX GOLD or not worry about it.

I was planning on taking the liv52, milk thistle, and taurine thoughout all 8 weeks or should I not do that and only take them during my PCT. I keep reading about jumping right into the PH that is why I am doing 40mg throughout the whole thing instead of starting at like 10 or 20 mg.

Week 1: 40 mg epistane
Week 2: 40 mg epistane
Week 3: 40 mg epistane
Week 4: 40 mg epistane
(Would it be possible to do it for a week 5 at 40 mg of epistane then go into my PCT or is that pushing it.) Also which PCT is better.
Week 5: 40 mg nolvadex or 40mg
Week 6: 30 mg nolvadex 40mg
Week 7: 20 mg nolvadex 20mg
Week 8: 10 mg nolvadex 20mg

I probably forgot something so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Looks pretty much spot on structure wise.

Good chance youll experience a bum libido for the best part of PCT on your first cycle - I did and I know some others on here did.

TRIBEX can help a little with libido but wont help massively for hormonal recovery.


It looks decent but based on my two epistane cycles I suggest the following:

  1. Start your liv52 and milk thistle support supps 1-2 weeks before you start the epistane. Keep them going throughout the cycle and PCT.

  2. 40mg epistane is right. I went up to 50 in my first cycle in the third and fourth week and it gave me no better gains than when I did 40mg on my second cycle. Still, I suggest you start 10mg on the first day and 20mg on the second day (hey, you never know if you are one out of a billion people who may react bad to it).

  3. I would skip the fifth week. I did it my first cycle and didn't see anything out of it worthwhile. Ultimately it is a matter for you.

  4. In terms of the nolvadex, I would go Wk1 40 Wk2 20 Wk 3 20 Wk4 10.

  5. Although not essential, you may want to consider adding the following in week 3 of your PCT: something to reduce cortisol, a natural test booster (TRIBEX as you have suggested), and some AIs.

Have fun.


Thx for your input I will take it into consideration. I have been reading alot about epi/havoc over the last couple days and ordered my stuff, it should be here soon. I hear alot of good things about Toremifene so I spent the extra money for it.

I changed my cycle to the following:
which equals one whole bottle of Epi

I have a couple questions before my products show up.
1) Is 120 for 3 days then 90 for 4 days , 60(1 week) 60(1 week) 30(1 week) good enough for Toremifene?

2)When doing the PCT should it be spread out through the day or take it all in the morning at once?

3)I keep hearing about preloading, do you guys think that it is really necessary I have 2 bottles of CEL CS I can use both on my first cycle but I was hoping to be able to just take one serving during the cycle and pct and only use one bottle, so I can save the other bottle for another time. It you really think that I'm better safe then sorry and that I should just use both bottle thats fine I will.

I will be taking:
1 gram sesamin per day on cycle not PCT
Potassium 1+ gram per day
Taurine 2-3 grams per day on cycle
Vitamin E 1+ gram per day
TRIBEX Gold (I was planning on starting week 3 but should I start week1 of my pct)

Dose timing: I heard to try to keep your liver support about 4 hours from the Epi
6:30 AM Epi 10mg
10:30 AM Liv 52, Cycle Support, Sesamin
2:30 PM Epi 10mg
5:30 PM Epi 10mg/20mg (Pre-Workout)
10:30 PM Liv 52, Cycle Support, Sesamin

I know I have alot of questions, sorry I am just trying to learn and want to make should everything is perfect, but I feel I am ready for my first cycle. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. I can keep a log of my first cycle if anyone is interested.


I too am about to start a cycle of Epistane but have a question about PCT

What's the difference between Toremifene and Tamoxifen? I was planning on taking Tamoxifen


Tamoxifen is the Nolvadex and the more commonly available. I have seen an increasing use of Toremifene
as well. Keep in mind they are dosed differently. I am awaiting the release of enclomiphene with great


Yes the dosing is different... I was reading that you can do with 30mg of tamoxifen what would need like 120mg of toremifene


I also have a question about when is the best time of day to take Tamoxifen. Also, should it be taken with food or on an empty stomach? Should it also be taken far apart in the day from a PCT Assist supplement? Like Primal Male or PCT Assist from CEL.
thanks for any inputs
I have read that PCT is best with Tamoxifen 40/40/20/20

Good luck OP! You seem to be right about there, from what I have read as well.


So can anyone please answer the timing question as to whether to liver support will interfer with the Epi???
Also is it better to space the liver support throughout the day like you do the Epi or ingest all at once say at bedtime for the best results ??? thank you.