T Nation

First-Timer Stack & PCT Questions

Pharma
#1

Hello,
New here to the forum, and pretty new to this. I’ve done one cycle of var only, and one of ostarine only in previous years (for leaning mostly, not size). I’m 38, 6’ft, 210 lbs, about 20% BF, and I’m mostly trying to gain a bit of size while leaning out a little.

I want to do my first stack, but I’m not sure exactly what is good for a first-timer, and what PCT to use after. I’ve done some research and pulled together some options, but I was really hoping to get feedback and opinions from experienced users.

Is this a good stack for a first-timer?:

Week 1 – 1/2cc Test-E (100MG) + 25MG ED Dbol
Week 2 – 1cc Test-E (200MG) + 25MG ED Dbol
Week 3 – 1.5cc Test-E (250MG) + 25MG ED Dbol
Week 4 – 2cc Test-E (400MG) + 25MG ED Dbol
Week 5 – 2cc Test-E (400MG) + 25M ED Dbol
Week 6 – 1.5cc Test-E (250MG) + 25MG ED Dbol
Week 7 – 1cc Test-E (200MG)
Week 8 – 1/2cc Test-E(100MG)

And which is the best option for a PCT based on this stack above?:

  • Nolvadex 10 mg/ED throughout this cycle.
  • Clomid 50mg/ED for 21 days, starting 2-weeks after week 8 shot.
  • Arimidex 0.5mg/EOD throughout the cycle.

*I should note that I have 25 doses of 1mg Arimidex on hand.

I also have 75 doses of 20mg Anavar on hand. Should I use Anavar instead of Dbol in the stack? Or stick to Dbol and use the Var in a cutting cycle closer to summer?
I’ve heard Dbol has really bad side effects, and I’m worried about Gyno mostly.

I’ve also been told to use Test-E + Clen + Anavar for my first stack. But I think this might be too much for me. Any feedback on this type of stack?
Thanks!

#2

Whomever told you this is an imbecile and you should feel free to ignore them for the rest of your life.

First cycle is test only. Period. You learn how you react to one new drug at a time, thus eliminating the guessing game if side effects pop up. Test+dbol for a first cycle is both popular and exceedingly dumb. You have no idea how you’re going to aromatize, so adding two aromatizing drugs in at the beginning is asking for trouble. After you’ve been on test for 8-10 weeks and you’ve got a handle on your side effects you can add in an oral as a finisher. This isn’t best practices, but it’s also the way you would do it if you insisted on using more than one drug.

Now, as far as your plan that you’ve laid out, it’s not good at all. Not one bit of it is correct. That’s fine, you’re still in the research phase and the point of research isn’t just to find what to do but also what not to do.

Here’s what’s wrong with it, in no particular order:

It’s too short. Eight weeks isn’t worth doing. It takes four weeks minimum to reach stable blood levels.

The dose is all kinds of fucked up. You’ll never actually reach stable levels with that dosing protocol. It’ll be a total roller coaster. And weeks one and eight are essentially wasted since 100mg is probably less than a replacement dose. So it’s functionally a six week cycle. No bueno. It also averages out to ~237mg/w, which is only slightly above what a lot of guys use for trt. Beginner cycle is test 500mg/w for 12-16 weeks, followed by proper pct.

One of your two PCT options isn’t a PCT option. I’ll let you guess which one.

If you’re saying that your bf is 20% I’ll assume that means 25% since almost no one is any good at estimating that. Unless you have actual calipers let’s assume it’s higher than 20%. This means that a cycle is off the table. Cut down before you start anything. If you start a cycle when you’re too heavy you’ll end up aromatizing like crazy and you’ll never put on the kind of muscle you want to without getting waaaaay too fat. You’ll get bigger, sure, but it’ll make it very tough to cut later because you’ll have added another 8-10lbs of fat. Easier to cut first and then have some room to grow when you actually cycle. And no, you don’t need anything to cut. Unless you’re doing an all-out suicide cut you won’t lose much muscle mass by just reducing calories and increasing cardio. Cut down then run a cycle to bulk up. It’s a pain in the ass but it’s worth it.

3 Likes
#3

Hey bro, thanks for the great feedback and insights.
So based on that, I should not do a stack for my first IM cycle. And I should do something like this?:

10-12 week Test-E Cycle

  • 2 cc’s (500 MG) 1x per week for 10-12 weeks.
  • Clomid 50mg/ED for 4-weeks, starting 2-weeks after the last shot.
#4

Split your injections so it’s 250 twice a week. Much more stability that way. 12 weeks is really the minimum here. The risk to your endocrine system is pretty much the same between 10 weeks and 12 weeks, so opt for the one that gives you more time. Muscle growth is largely a function of time more than anything else. All things being equal 12 is better than 10, and 16 is better than 12. At some point you hit diminishing returns (the 20 week mark seems to be the upper limit for normal people using normal amounts of AAS) but 12 is enough for your first time. It’s not ideal, but it’s enough.

Pct should be nolva (tamoxifen) at a low dose for six weeks. I’ve seen 20/20/10/10/10/10, 40/20/20/10/10/10, or just 10 throughout. I don’t know which is “right”, but 20 for four weeks and 10 for another two weeks is highly effective. Clomid is fine, but the side effect profile is worse, and it’s significantly weaker than Nolva, which is why the doses are always higher.

You can start two weeks after your last injection. Technically three weeks after is better, but nobody does that and they recover just fine.

#5

Ok cool got it; split into 250 twice a week / 12-week. Add use Nolva instead of Clomid.

Could I add a stack of SARM or Anavar to the end of the cycle; week 6-12? Just to help boost the cycle and reduce fat?

#6

Adding at the end is fine, especially if it’s a non-aromatizing oral. Anavar is a great choice.

#7

Awesome, thanks for your help @iron_yuppie !!

#8

Do people usually use nolvadex throughout their cycle at 10mg a day to prevent gyno?

#9

Yes you can do that. Even higher many people like 20 mg per day.

#10

For all 16 weeks?

#11

Usually it gets taken when gyno starts to form. So not from day one on but after a few weeks and then yes until the end of the cycle.

If you got many high estrogen sides (limp dick, very emotional, gyno,…) then you’d take an AI, if it’s just gyno then it’s tamoxifen.

1 Like
#12

Quick question about when you pin. If you by chance miss the muscle and/or a vein, and the product goes SC or into fat. Is that a really bad thing? Or will your body still absorb it?

#13

Body still absorbs it irrespective of it going into muscle or subcutaneous fat.