T Nation

First Timer Cycle


#1

Hi everyone,

Thinking about trying a helladrol and katanadrol cycle as my first ever PH/Steroid cycle.

Stats:
6'1
205lbs
13% BF
21 years old (22 in April)
Been lifting since 16, seriously since 17-18

My overall goal is to be a very lean 215 maybe at about 8% BF walking around.

Current hypertrophy split:
Mon- Chest tris
Tues- Back bis
Wed- Rest
Thurs- Legs
Friday- Shoulders

Current Diet:
meal 1 = 7 whole eggs with a whole grain bagel
meal 2 = 4 oz chicken breast, 1 sweet potato, asparagus, half avocado
workout
post wo= whey iso shake
meal 3 = 6 oz chicken breast, 1 sweet potato, spring salad (a plate full)
meal 4 = whey iso shake, more veggies

What I intend to get out of this cycle would be some muscle mass along with fat loss.

Intended cycle:
1-6 helladrol 75/75/75/100/100/100
1-6 katanadrol 3 caps a day
1-6 n2guard
7-10 clomid 25/12.5/12.5/12.5
7-10 lean xtreme

I came up with this schedule based off of peoples reviews online and what people found best and tweaked it to what I thought might be good. Please critique, give advice, tell me I'm an idiot, or this looks good.


#2

How about 500mg/week Test for 10 weeks?


#3

I was originally thinking a 10-12 week test e cycle I’ve always heard I should do a test cycle rather than a PH but I like the idea of doing a six week cycle just in case anything comes up in my schedule. Would you recommend a test e cycle rather than a helladrol?


#4

Well you’re going to get suppressed from PHs anyway so you might as well use a compound of proved efficacy with well known side effects and ways to manage them rather than taking something that may or may not partially work and with a much less known side effect profile.


#5

The main reason I wanted to do that stack was because I wanted to gain a few pounds of mass while also losing a lbs of body fat. For the most part while researching test e everywhere I read it says to focus either on bulking or cutting not both. And since my goal is to just gain a few pounds while losing fat that was my thought. Also if I’m going to pin I need to do a lot more research on how to and the dos and donts. Do you have a good read on pinning?


#6

Umm I don’t see any “steroids” in your “cycle.”

I advocate to stay far away from PHs. Nowadays, companies keep tweaking these formulas to stay within the law before the products get pulled. As eaboadar stated, you should really just run Test E. Your gains are going to be determined by your training and diet (mostly diet). If you don’t want to gain a bunch of weight, eat appropriately.

Honestly, stay away from PHs. The whole “if something comes up” stuff is nonsense. What if something comes up on the PH? You just going to stop? You should do a real cycle, throw out all the SARMS or random things in there, use Test E with a real AI and a real PCT of Nolva and/or Clomid, and stay safe.


#7

[quote]msanchez123321 wrote:
Umm I don’t see any “steroids” in your “cycle.”

I advocate to stay far away from PHs. Nowadays, companies keep tweaking these formulas to stay within the law before the products get pulled. As eaboadar stated, you should really just run Test E. Your gains are going to be determined by your training and diet (mostly diet). If you don’t want to gain a bunch of weight, eat appropriately.

Honestly, stay away from PHs. The whole “if something comes up” stuff is nonsense. What if something comes up on the PH? You just going to stop? You should do a real cycle, throw out all the SARMS or random things in there, use Test E with a real AI and a real PCT of Nolva and/or Clomid, and stay safe. [/quote]

I’ll post up a proposed cycle and see what you guys think.

And the “if something comes up” I just mean it will be less likely to cause a problem on a 6 week cycle versus a 12 week cycle because of the obvious less amount of time. Lately I’ve been getting strep a lot and am thinking about getting a tonsillectomy, and I wouldn’t want to have to take a few days off my cycle because of this. When I begin the cycle I want to be 100% committed and hopefully have no hiccups.

I’ll post a diet and cycle plan and see what you guys think.

Thanks


#8

[quote]joshmichaels wrote:

[quote]msanchez123321 wrote:
Umm I don’t see any “steroids” in your “cycle.”

I advocate to stay far away from PHs. Nowadays, companies keep tweaking these formulas to stay within the law before the products get pulled. As eaboadar stated, you should really just run Test E. Your gains are going to be determined by your training and diet (mostly diet). If you don’t want to gain a bunch of weight, eat appropriately.

Honestly, stay away from PHs. The whole “if something comes up” stuff is nonsense. What if something comes up on the PH? You just going to stop? You should do a real cycle, throw out all the SARMS or random things in there, use Test E with a real AI and a real PCT of Nolva and/or Clomid, and stay safe. [/quote]

I’ll post up a proposed cycle and see what you guys think.

And the “if something comes up” I just mean it will be less likely to cause a problem on a 6 week cycle versus a 12 week cycle because of the obvious less amount of time. Lately I’ve been getting strep a lot and am thinking about getting a tonsillectomy, and I wouldn’t want to have to take a few days off my cycle because of this. When I begin the cycle I want to be 100% committed and hopefully have no hiccups.

I’ll post a diet and cycle plan and see what you guys think.

Thanks[/quote]

I get that. Understandable. In that case, maybe think about postponing the cycle until you’re sure you can go through with it. You’ll prefer it that way, and you’ll get wayyy more out of it.


#9

Alright, Not sure when I will start this cycle but here is my proposed layout:

Weeks 1-12 Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks 1-12 Aromasin 10mg/ED (Many people do 12.5 but I thought 10 would be fine)
Weeks 1-14.5 hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks 15-19
Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

EDIT: I’d rather do 10 weeks but let me know what y’all think

I’ve been researching a lot and this plan seems to be the best long ester beginner cycle and also safest with the AI in there. What do you guys think?

I never gave my lifting stats either Fyi:
bench 275x6, 315x1
squat 365x6 (havent maxed)
deadlift 405x8 (havent maxed)
DB military 90’s x10

Also as far as diet, I’m trying to gain lean mass while losing some fat. I’m a hard gainer, So I’m thinking my 5 day split and some cardio and this diet I will be able to achieve my goals:

Meal 1:
6 whole eggs 480 calories/42 protein/30 fat
Bagel 210 calories/8 protein/42 carbs/2 fat

Meal 2:
8 oz chicken breast 255 calories/35 protein/12 fat
sweet potato 103 calories/2 protein/24 carbs

Pre workout:
Whey 110 calories/22 protein/2 fat
1 cup oats 360 calories/10 protein/60 carbs/5 fat

WORKOUT

Post Workout shake:
Whey 110 calories/22 protein/2 fat
and dextrose (40 grams) 150 calories/40 carbs

Meal 3: (Same as meal 2)
8 oz chicken breast 255 calories/35 protein/12 fat
sweet potato 103 calories/2 protein/24 carbs
Asparagus

Meal 4:
Tilapia filet 100 calories/21 protein/2 fat
1 cup uncooked white rice 730 calories/15 protein/159 carbs/2 fat/(ton of sodium, like 2080mg) (I don’t want to gain water weight so Im not sure)

Meal 5:
As many veggies as I want
Possibly casein shake ( if i buy some casein)

That brings me to roughly 2966 calories, 214 protein, 349 carbs, 69 fat. Id be at 3000 if I used casein and milk shake before bed. I counted the macros and it looks to be about 47% carbs, 33% protein, and 20% fats. I’m thinking up the protein lower the carbs. Any suggestions on that as well?


#10

bump


#11

You want to run hCG when you start to become shutdown and end it before PCT.
Most ppl recommend starting at wk3 and ending 3-5 days before pct.

I THINK aromasin comes in 25mg tabs. Which is why people do 12.5 as it’s easy to cut in half. I use liquid aromasin and use an oral syringe to measure.

Eat more on cycle.


#12

Also, there seems to be no reason to stack SERMs or overdose them. So you could do Nolvadex only at 20mg/day for the four weeks. You could also run the Aromasin through PCT and taper it down. And why not do 10 weeks if this is what you want to do? So your revised cycle could look like this:

Weeks 1-10 Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks 1-14 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
Weeks 1-14 hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks 15-19
Aromasin 12.5/6.25/6.25
Nolva 20/20/20/20


#13

[quote]Squige wrote:
You want to run hCG when you start to become shutdown and end it before PCT.
Most ppl recommend starting at wk3 and ending 3-5 days before pct.

I THINK aromasin comes in 25mg tabs. Which is why people do 12.5 as it’s easy to cut in half. I use liquid aromasin and use an oral syringe to measure.

Eat more on cycle. [/quote]

They do come in 25mg tabs you’re right, I just heard for a first cycle with low BF 12.5 is not necessary but I could do that. And I’ll add more to my diet and post it.


#14

[quote]eaboadar wrote:
Also, there seems to be no reason to stack SERMs or overdose them. So you could do Nolvadex only at 20mg/day for the four weeks. You could also run the Aromasin through PCT and taper it down. And why not do 10 weeks if this is what you want to do? So your revised cycle could look like this:

Weeks 1-10 Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks 1-14 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
Weeks 1-14 hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks 15-19
Aromasin 12.5/6.25/6.25
Nolva 20/20/20/20 [/quote]

So you wouldn’t start the hCG at shutdown like said above? And also you wouldn’t stack clomid with nolva?


#15

[quote]joshmichaels wrote:

[quote]eaboadar wrote:
Also, there seems to be no reason to stack SERMs or overdose them. So you could do Nolvadex only at 20mg/day for the four weeks. You could also run the Aromasin through PCT and taper it down. And why not do 10 weeks if this is what you want to do? So your revised cycle could look like this:

Weeks 1-10 Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks 1-14 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
Weeks 1-14 hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks 15-19
Aromasin 12.5/6.25/6.25
Nolva 20/20/20/20 [/quote]

So you wouldn’t start the hCG at shutdown like said above? And also you wouldn’t stack clomid with nolva?[/quote]

Well, by stacking Nolvadex and Clomid you wouldn’t be getting an additional effect since they both work the same way. So, in practical terms, stacking is just the same as taking a comparably larger dose of either, for which there seems to be no real good reason. And, of the two, Nolvadex has a better side effect profile.

And yes, the standard recommendation is to start HCG when the drugs start having an effect on the HPTA. I also forgot to change some of the numbers related to the number of weeks, considering a 10 week cycle.

So:

Weeks: 1 - End of 10: Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks: 1 - End of 12: Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
Weeks: 3 - End of 11: hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks: Start of 13 - End of 16

Aromasin 12.5/6.25/6.25/0
Nolva 20/20/20/20


#16

[quote]eaboadar wrote:

[quote]joshmichaels wrote:

[quote]eaboadar wrote:
Also, there seems to be no reason to stack SERMs or overdose them. So you could do Nolvadex only at 20mg/day for the four weeks. You could also run the Aromasin through PCT and taper it down. And why not do 10 weeks if this is what you want to do? So your revised cycle could look like this:

Weeks 1-10 Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks 1-14 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
Weeks 1-14 hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks 15-19
Aromasin 12.5/6.25/6.25
Nolva 20/20/20/20 [/quote]

So you wouldn’t start the hCG at shutdown like said above? And also you wouldn’t stack clomid with nolva?[/quote]

Well, by stacking Nolvadex and Clomid you wouldn’t be getting an additional effect since they both work the same way. So, in practical terms, stacking is just the same as taking a comparably larger dose of either, for which there seems to be no real good reason. And, of the two, Nolvadex has a better side effect profile.

And yes, the standard recommendation is to start HCG when the drugs start having an effect on the HPTA. I also forgot to change some of the numbers related to the number of weeks, considering a 10 week cycle.

So:

Weeks: 1 - End of 10: Test E 500mgs/week (250mgs every 3.5 days)
Weeks: 1 - End of 12: Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
Weeks: 3 - End of 11: hCG 250iu/twice a week (Pin the day before test injection)

PCT

Weeks: Start of 13 - End of 16

Aromasin 12.5/6.25/6.25/0
Nolva 20/20/20/20[/quote]

Thanks!