T Nation

First Time Starting a Cycle. Any Suggestions?


#1

I am planning (already purchased) starting my first cycle of Testosterone. I have done plenty of researching through the web, and also have been talking with buddies who have experienced in the past and or are still currently using steroids. I have been interested in and started gathering information on steroids approx 2 years ago when I first started taking training more seriously.

When I started lifting I was in 8th grade. I had played sports my whole life (basketball mainly) and was 110% interested in anything sport related. For about the first two years of lifting, I was inconsistent, young some a proper diet never really mattered to me and I wasn’t making any gains… Just learning I suppose. My 10th grade year I had brain surgery due to a car accident and was sidelined for about 4 months. I had totally lost my legs, but was determined more than ever to push myself in the gym, attempting to receive a D1 college offer, ended up tearing my ACL sadly and didn’t receive many looks by scouts my junior year. My senior year I recovered from the tear and started taking the gym seriously again, played my senior year, was offered a few D2 partial scholarships but ended up deciding not to play and just focus on lifting / academics.

Reasoning for the small backstory is, I want people to understand that I am not just a teenager looking for a shortcut nor am I hear to be talked out of my decision to pursue the use of steroids. I have always been dedicated to my training and always willing to do every step to make sure I do whatever I do the right way.

I’m 19 years old. My specs when I started lifting.
(Never have I been “naturally” big, or blessed with the genetics of a “beast”)

Junior Year.
5’6
128 pounds.
Bench : 75 pounds.
Squat : 115 pounds
Deadlift : 115 pounds

Now (19 years young)
5’9 maybe 5’10
161 pounds
Bench : 165
Squat : 245
Deadlift : 225

My diet is not strict or extremely clean. Usually eat different food every day, around 8 meals a day if we’re including protein shakes. Numbers end up like this
Anywhere from 2200-3000+ calories
150-250g of protein
and hovering right around a normal intake with carbs/fat for bulking.
I stay away from junk food, any kind of beverages and get my veggies and fruits both 2x+ a day.

I lift 5-6 days a week. In the gym 7 days a week, either playing basketball / doing cardio on off days, or in the gym just working on whatever muscle group im feeling like during a light work.

I’ve been consistently lifting and eating like this for about 11 months now I would say, and I have noticed very little gains in anywhere other than the strength department. I supplemented creatine first 6-7 months of lifting. Don’t anymore… I’ve always been naturally small, so hasn’t most of my family. I’m aware that my body is not fully developed, but I am on edge of believing that I don’t produce as much testosterone as a normal kid my age. (Especially for the way I eat and train) I have many personal reasons to also back up my theory…

Any suggestions towards how I should go by taking my first cycle would be appreciated. I am trying to keep it as simple as possible.

For example :
Week 1-12 - Test-E 250mg/wk
Week 1-12 - Nolvadex 10mg/day
PCT - Nolvadex 20mg/day x2 for 2 weeks, then 20mg/day x1 for 2 weeks.

Also, anything else I should take DURING my cycle? Would love to hear others experiences with their first cycle and how they went about it. Any side effects I should almost be guaranteed to expect even when doing the cycle the right way? If so, what can I do to negate them.

Thanks


#2

Also, would it be smarter to take Armidex during the cycle instead of Nolvadex and saving the nolvadex solely for PCT?


#3

NO run nolva 10mg/day MAYBE 20mg/day tops if you really feel you need it. Arimidex is usually overkill especially in a cycle like this! If you take even a tiny bit too much arimidex for your body (Which for some even 0.125 EOD is too much) then you will crash estro too much and kill your gains!


#4

Here’s my advice. Give it another year or so of hard working out, and get to 12% bodyfat or BELOW before starting a cycle. You are only 161lb and probably higher than 12% bf, you will be limiting yourself by using steroids now! Give it one more year of hard work, then hop on a cycle!

Put it this way man, if you have trouble getting past 161lb and those lifts without gear, you aren’t gonna get too far even with gear. You need to get your diet and lifting on track BEFORE jumping into gear.

However, I Am not naïve and I understand you may not listen to my advice. You are an adult now so I will give you some good info incase you choose not to listen to me. I STRONGLY URGE you to wait another year before using steroids, but if you choose to use now I WILL help you as best as I can! AT THE VERY LEAST, cut for a month or two until you hit 12% before your cycle! It will be MUCH more effective at 12% bf or lower! if you try to cycle at around 15% you will be underwhelmed and likely disappointed, even if you do things correctly, but would get great results at 12% or lower.

Here are two basic beginner cycles for you to choose from. I will not include HCG dosage (optional, will help with test recovery and stop ball shrinkage) OR PCT (not optional, very necessary if you want natural test to recover) in my advice. I am on for life, so I do not use PCT so you will have to get PCT advice elsewhere.

CYCLE ONE, basic test cycle

weeks 1-12 Test E 375mg-500mg/week
weeks 1-12 Nolva 10mg/day

Honestly, if you’re going to take the plunge with test ONLY, you might as well jump in at 500mg. Still is a low dose. HOWEVER, I would advise doing cycle 2 for a beginner cycle, I think it will be much more effective! AGAIN, I STRONGLY recommend being 12% bodyfat or less, even if you don’t wanna wait a year, still spend a month or two cutting to 12% bf or less first!

CYCLE TWO, basic test and masteron, long ester version

Weeks 1-12 Test E 400mg/week
Weeks 1-12 Masteron E 400mg/week
You SHOULD NOT need an AI on this, due to masteron anti estro properties, but still have nolva on hand for pct anyways and take if needed at 10mg a day.

CYCLE TWO, basic test and masteron, short ester version

Weeks 1-8/10 Test prop 350mg/week
Weeks 1-8/10 Masteron prop 350mg/week
Again, same AI advice as the long ester version of this cycle!

I’ll tell you once more bro, If you don’t wanna wait a year, ATLEAST cut to 12% bf and your results will be like twice as good if not better than at 15% plus BF. That’s the best advice I Can give. IF and when you decide to go ahead with a cycle, feel free to post in my log or tag me in a post and I will keep you on track!


#5

I was going to say something about your age, diet, and training. But before I do that, I’m going to make a suggestion. I think you ought to get a blood test for low testosterone, FSH, and LH. If they come back low for your age, since you’re not making impressive gains by any means and should be consuming a shit-ton of calories from school food alone, you ought to pursue an endo followed by an MRI (get a second opinion if they’re low and they don’t give you an MRI considering the accident). You might’ve sustained some head trauma and damaged your pituitary, and therefore, aren’t able to make enough testosterone to see any results as you should for your age and natural testosterone levels, which I should mention, roughly the 250mg test-e you mentioned in your first cycle should put you at, i.e., secondary hypogonadism.


#6

You don’t need to juice at your age.

You’re a hard gainer. Do the GOMAD or something coupled with lots of lifting. You will get huge.


#7

Okay so no AI, and HCG is optional… Only reason I was strongly leaning towards an AI was because I understand I am young and most likely I am still growing, didn’t want to mess with estrogen levels too much, but also don’t know if I have to proper ability to keep track of taking something like arimidex.

On a scale 1-10… for first time cycle. How important is taking an HCG… If it’s over a 3 I’m 100% for sure going to go ahead and take it.

Currently 7 guys at my gym who I powerlift with, are all stacking anadrol with Test-Cyp and only one of them are is taking an AI… none are taking an HCG. I believe that is pretty fucking stupid but they are all old-heads and have been in the game for a while now except a few. They assure me that I will not need an AI and taking an HGC is just spending extra $$ with only 250mg/wk of Test-C…

The only things I have purchased as of today are Nolvadex and Test.

Is dosing 500mg/wk technically putting me at twice as much of a risk or is it smarter?

& How will I be able to notice if my body is producing excess amounts of estrogen if I’m taking the Nolvadex from Week 1? Should I just keep it on hand and get routine blood work done?

Also, I am currently pushing hard to cut down body fat, planning on starting cycle two wednesdays from now.


#8

You’ve done “plenty of research” but still think starting a cycle at age 19 with a 225 deadlift is a good idea?

I think you need to do more research.

@flipcollar
@Reed
@dt79


#9

I actually don’t believe it’s a good idea, but at the same time I don’t think it’s a horrible idea. After lifting for years and studying the research of steroids for quite some time now, I am curious the effect it would have on my body if done properly.

I take care of myself and have never done any drugs or smoked cigarettes. So I can’t see why I wouldn’t want to experience something that technically improves my health / physique (yes I know the sides)… Better than trying meth or crack eh?


#10

All jokes aside. I’m not doing my first cycle because I am “curious”. I have the experience in a gym… I have the will & dedication. I’m doing it for the same reason a majority of other do it. To look and feel better.


#11

Ok. You gotta be a troll or just fucking retarded.

Lifting for years. With power lifting buddies… and your Max bench is 4 pounds over your body weight?

Get bloodwork done before anything. You’re gonna need it to know your baseline. Or ignore everyone here and just inject 10000mg testosterone at once for max gains, because that’s just as asinine as you’re coming across as now.


#12

Kid, almost every single day on this forum someone like you shows up. 19 years old, training for 1 or 2 years, babbling on about their dedication and will and knowledge.

If you’re squatting 245 and deadlifting 225 after one full year of training, that’s nice for a beginner.

Unless I’ve misread and those numbers are kilograms, it doesn’t put you anywhere close to territory where you should be considering anabolics.

Quite simply, you need to learn to eat and train properly. There are dozens of quality lifters on here more than willing to provide direction in that regard. I strongly suggest that rather than leaning on the crutch of AAS now, you “dedicate” yourself a little more to eating and training well, learning from others on this site if needed, and maybe revisit the concept of AAS at a later date.

I am not an AAS user myself, but I’m not against their use by experienced lifters who truly understand what they’re doing (both in the gym and with their hormones). That is not you at this time. Not even close.

Get your bench to 300, squat to 400, and deadlift to 500. There are many guys on here who have achieved those numbers naturally.


#13

Okay bro, so you do NOT wanna run arimidex, trust me here. You should take 10mg nolva from day one, not wait and see if your estro gets high… that’s an absurd idea. Why would you LET your estro get too high??? 10mg nolva is NOT I repeat NOT going to crash or lower your estro too much, it doesn’t work that way…it basically prevents it from getting worse. it is MUCH harder to get estrogen down than it is to prevent it in the first place…
Moral of the story is, take your 10mg nolva from the beginning. Even if you didn’t end up needing it, Nolva doesn’t hurt gains like arimidex and other AI’s do. Many people don’t use an AI cause they are scared of this, but Nolva CAN NOT hurt gains, and its easier on your system than 800mg Tylenol. ALSO having estrogen too high can REALLY hurt gains so trust me, its worth it to take the nolva as a precaution!

You don’t want to be able to notice if your body is producing excess estrogen, you want to take proper precautions so that it CAN NOT happen. This is why we take nolva from day 1. I hope this helps put it into perspective for you. IF you get bloods done and see your estro is too high, then you’ve created a problem that will require higher AI dose to fix than it would have to simply prevent, and it will hurt your gains and inflame your body. Not worth risking letting it get high at all! Taking nolva at 10mg has NO negative effects, except the same of 600-800mg Tylenol on the liver.

Dosing 500mg test a week is better than 250 for sure, for your first cycle id do 400-500 defs not 250, although 250 will still give small results.

I don’t know what you mean by is 500mg twice the risk? There is NO risk really from running a small test cycle assuming you do a proper pct. IF you mean estrogen wise, taking 10mg nolva WILL ELIMINATE ALL POSSIBLE PROBLEMS WITH NO NEGATIVES.

IF you are running 500mg test and taking 10mg nolva I WOULD NOT bother getting bloods to check estrogen, but you can if youd like.

IF you wanna be extra safe, get bloods BEFORE the cycle, then again a couple weeks AFTER your pct, and see if you have recovered properly by comparing them! IF you have, then you know your pct was spot on! This is the most effective way YOU Could utilize bloods in YOUR position. Your cycle is not advanced enough or serious enough to be worrying about damage.


#14

You will end up just gaining intramuscular fluid if this is the case. It will look like lbm, but that’s about it. You will lose it once the cycle ends. During the down time where your HPTA is still suppressed, you will probably lose existing muscle mass.

So if your goal is to carry around a bit of extra weight for a couple of weeks, go for it.

Steroids do not improve your health when you use above clinical amounts. The argument that you don’t do other drugs makes no sense. If something, anything with potential detriments to your health regardless of the severity is not worthwhile, why do it at all?

Your results prove otherwise. You kids are all talk these days. You want to be taken seriously without having done anything to earn it.


#15

I thought we agreed we would both ease up on the steroid talk? You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Stop giving people advice.


#16

Yeah, whatever you say bud. I’m sure you have a great grasp of the knowledge that I have, right? I made a lot of mistakes in my past and ive been open about that, but if you read the advice ive given it’s all very good advice for people who are confused.
I’ve given advice in every single recent pharma thread, and lots of people are grateful for that .MY advice is sound proper.


#17

We agreed to stop debating my history in my thread, I’m on this forum to get advice from a few people and give advice to beginners when it comes to steroids.

That’s literally the reason i’m here.


#18

And thanks to my advice, we have a few guys that were stopped from doing things such as running 0.5mg arimidex with 250mg test… Not a lot of people are responding in the pharma section so I am doing a great service to a lot of people. try reading the advice, maybe you could learn something…


#19

No, your advice is rubbish. I do not want to post about steroids so I’m not going to point out where. These are not fucking supplements. These are drugs that can potentially fuck someone up for life. If you have any sense of decency, you would shut the fuck up.


#20

That’s why i’m giving proper sound advice. ANYBODY who knows anything about AAS will agree with the advice I have given. I’m showing people how to be safe with steroids, and particularly looking for posts (Such as this) where people are thinking about OVERDOING there AI, which is a big problem that isn’t talked about much. It leads to people dosing much more than they need to because they aren’t getting the results they should, do to crashing there estro too low.

All the AAS advice I’ve given is scientifically sound and I’ll be happy to show you some studies to back up anything that you deem questionable. Not going to pull up a study for something that’s common knowledge though.

AAS is something i’m very educated about, and something I have personally made a lot of mistakes with a few years ago before I became educated about it. I have first hand been where a lot of these people are, and made the SAME MISTAKES that I am stopping them from making. I think I’m more than qualified to give advice on this kind of stuff.