T Nation

First Time, Retired Athlete


#1

Hello all,
First I'd like to say thank you to everyone for providing so much helpful information.

Since I'm new here, here is a bit of background.
I'm a retired pro endurance athlete. I have always been 100% clean and am a firm believer in testing for competitive sports. Over the course of my career however, I wore my body down. I have tears in my knee, hip, and both shoulders. I am still able to power through exercises, though many are relatively painful. I still spend over 20 hours per week working out and am in solid shape. I was never the most talented athlete, but I always refused to take no for an answer. I'm at the point where I sometimes feel like the choice is being taken from me. Additionally, I've been so overtrained at points that I've had all sorts of adrenal/endocrine issues. I feel I have never fully recovered because it's not in my personality to give myself time off.

Though my body isn't cooperative, there are still many things in my life that I would like to do and accomplish that are extremely physically taxing. Since I am no longer tested on a regular basis by WADA and USADA, I want to explore new options that will make getting out of bed easier in the morning.

My main goal is not bulking. I do not care about size AT ALL. Aesthetics are of literally no value to me. I don't care if I get bigger or smaller. My goals are joint health and strength, cardio AND muscular endurance, recovery, improved energy, that overall sense of well being I used to have, and any positive mental effects (I know, wouldn't we all like this).

More simply, I want a bit of help getting back to how I felt in my prime. I need to be able to cope with massive amounts of pushups, running, pull ups, and bodyweight excercises.

From the research I've done, peptides seem as if they may be my best bet for joint health and recovery. I realize the damage wont fully heal, but anything will be great, even if it cuts down on tendinosis. The peptides I think fit this bill from the research I've done are:
MOD-GRF (1-29)
GW501516
and I've seen some people put HGH into the peptide class.

I'm planning on speaking with a doctor about the possibility of TRT.

The final three possibilities I've considered are:
Primobolan
Equipoise - is this the same as "EQ"?
SUS250

I've had bloodwork done so I can provide values for anything you may find useful.

I've also considered DHEA and EPO, but will probably avoid EPO due to the risks.

Ideally, I would like to be able to take something weekly on a Sunday, and feel the benefits through Friday. The ideal duration of this would be 21 weeks, but I understand if this is unreasonable.

I'm still trying to get the hang of the names, different benefits, combinations, and dosages. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Some of the peptides seem to have very similar names so please correct me if I mess any up. I want to get this right.
Thank you


#2

EPO? EPO will boost your red blood cells while you’re on it. That will increase your endurance while you’re on it. It will do nada for injury recovery. Further, AAS will do the same thing(boost red blood cells) - often to the point that guys have to give blood to get rid of it.

I’ve had some success with IGF-1 LR3 for injury recovery. But it’s hard to get real IGF-1 LR3. If you do it needs to be reconstituted in .6% Acetic Acid.

You mention endocrine problems from overtraining. I’ve had the same thing. Cortisol through the roof. Although it’s catabolic it really protects your body so you shouldn’t try to lower it other than by backing off on your training or you’re just asking for more pain and injuries. Can’t really advise you on peptides.


#3

See attached. If your problem is anything like that then I strongly advise backing off on your training. Otherwise you’ll end up with Cushings Syndrome. Considered giving up endurance training and taking up strength training? Sounds like you’ve got your mind made up and you’ve been doing this for a while. Just keep in mind what you’re doing to your body.


#4

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:
EPO? EPO will boost your red blood cells while you’re on it. That will increase your endurance while you’re on it. It will do nada for injury recovery. Further, AAS will do the same thing(boost red blood cells) - often to the point that guys have to give blood to get rid of it.

I’ve had some success with IGF-1 LR3 for injury recovery. But it’s hard to get real IGF-1 LR3. If you do it needs to be reconstituted in .6% Acetic Acid.

You mention endocrine problems from overtraining. I’ve had the same thing. Cortisol through the roof. Although it’s catabolic it really protects your body so you shouldn’t try to lower it other than by backing off on your training or you’re just asking for more pain and injuries. Can’t really advise you on peptides.[/quote]

Thanks, I think I’ll be avoiding the EPO due to the unavoidable dehydration I will experience. Blood viscosity is not something I want to be worried about.

You bring up a good point, I know questions about procurement are not welcome on this forum (understandably so), but is there anything on top of what I would call common sense procedures to ensure that I am getting a good product?

As far as the cortisol, I’ve run it both ways. I’ve run it so high for so long that I went into adrenal burnout and it plummeted. I was unable to properly function. This has happened to me a few times and it really was not fun. That said, I know I can suck it up if need be. I’ve read that the DHEA can be beneficial for snapping back from this sort of issue. Input?


#5

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:
See attached. If your problem is anything like that then I strongly advise backing off on your training. Otherwise you’ll end up with Cushings Syndrome. Considered giving up endurance training and taking up strength training? Sounds like you’ve got your mind made up and you’ve been doing this for a while. Just keep in mind what you’re doing to your body.[/quote]

Thanks, you bring up a valid point but for what I want to accomplish it isn’t really an option. The more I think about it, the most important result may be increased recovery speed. This is tangentially related to increased energy and strength. I


#6

Also, sorry for the triple post, but Test Enanthate seems to fit the bill of what would help me. What is the specific dosage and “name” of what I would use? Would a once weekly injection be acceptable?
Thanks


#7

[quote]tnw886 wrote:

Thanks, I think I’ll be avoiding the EPO due to the unavoidable dehydration I will experience. Blood viscosity is not something I want to be worried about.

You bring up a good point, I know questions about procurement are not welcome on this forum (understandably so), but is there anything on top of what I would call common sense procedures to ensure that I am getting a good product?

[/quote]

You can get pharmaceutical grade. It’s not necessarily more expensive. You can also check for lab tests of products by searching for the product name and lab tests. You can also check out source discussions on forums that allow them and see what other people are saying about products.

[quote]

As far as the cortisol, I’ve run it both ways. I’ve run it so high for so long that I went into adrenal burnout and it plummeted. I was unable to properly function. This has happened to me a few times and it really was not fun. That said, I know I can suck it up if need be. I’ve read that the DHEA can be beneficial for snapping back from this sort of issue. Input?[/quote]

I wouldn’t try to block or downregulate cortisol. As I said it protects your body and when you take it away you’ll be in more pain and suffer more tissue damage. It’s not a matter of sucking up the pain. Your body cannot cope with the stresses put upon it and when you take the cortisol away it makes everything worse. I’d advise easing up on the training. But it’s up to you. I haven’t been through adrenal fatigue so you’ve probably got more idea than I have about it.


#8

[quote]tnw886 wrote:
Also, sorry for the triple post, but Test Enanthate seems to fit the bill of what would help me. What is the specific dosage and “name” of what I would use? Would a once weekly injection be acceptable?
Thanks[/quote]

You should really research this yourself. I’m not trying to be a dick but if you’re going to take AAS you really need to know what you’re doing. You’ll have to put in some time to get to understand how it works. A typical first cycle would be 500mg of test a week for 12 weeks then post cycle therapy to recover. and I can’t give you any names of products. It really isn’t that hard to find on the net what you’re looking for.


#9

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]tnw886 wrote:
Also, sorry for the triple post, but Test Enanthate seems to fit the bill of what would help me. What is the specific dosage and “name” of what I would use? Would a once weekly injection be acceptable?
Thanks[/quote]

You should really research this yourself. I’m not trying to be a dick but if you’re going to take AAS you really need to know what you’re doing. You’ll have to put in some time to get to understand how it works. A typical first cycle would be 500mg of test a week for 12 weeks then post cycle therapy to recover. and I can’t give you any names of products. It really isn’t that hard to find on the net what you’re looking for.[/quote]

Didn’t think you were being a dick at all, just trying to figure this out (computer is covered in sticky notes). Planning on meeting with a trusted doctor to discuss a few things later this week. Most of the knowledge here, and everywhere I’ve read is geared to drastically different goals than I have. There is very little information regarding dosing for what I want to do, because most people say steroids/test don’t help endurance. They do however speed recovery, which over a challenging period is analogous to increasing endurance.

So if I wanted to put a serious focus on the entire third week, wasn’t able to do any injections after the first day, could I add in test suspension or would that make me “crash” after a few days or less?

Right now it seems that SUS250 would let me dose every 3 weeks, test enanthate every seven days, and equipoise would also be every seven days as well. From what I’ve read, they must be taken with a SERM or AI. Are these also dosed weekly? Or must I add these in more often?


#10

honestly, i’d suggest getting bloodwork to see where your hormones levels are at.

you might need TRT, and that might be really effective for you… and if not, it’s always good to know your baseline prior to your cycle.

i second the recommendation to scale back your training, as well…


#11

Have a doctor check your hormone levels. Your training plan is fine but you will just have to accept your career will be shortened because of it.


#12

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i’d suggest getting bloodwork to see where your hormones levels are at.

you might need TRT, and that might be really effective for you… and if not, it’s always good to know your baseline prior to your cycle.

i second the recommendation to scale back your training, as well…[/quote]

What specific hormones would be useful? I can provide results now. From what I had read, it seemed like going the AAS route instead of TRT would give me the same results and more.

Just to add a bit to this, I’ve had semi regular blood work done for years, and there have been tons of variations in levels such as free and total T.


#13

So I’ve been researching all day… I think what I would like to do is a combination of EQ and Test Enanthate. Maybe GW501516?

In preparing for this training phase, I may give DECA and MOD-GRF 1-29 a shot, then take a break for a period equal to my time on before begining. So it may looke something like 7 weeks on, 7 weeks off, 14+ weeks on, then a PCT with an AI like letrozole.


#14

[quote]tnw886 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i’d suggest getting bloodwork to see where your hormones levels are at.

you might need TRT, and that might be really effective for you… and if not, it’s always good to know your baseline prior to your cycle.

i second the recommendation to scale back your training, as well…[/quote]

What specific hormones would be useful? I can provide results now. From what I had read, it seemed like going the AAS route instead of TRT would give me the same results and more.[/quote]

If you go AAS route you will need to PCT. Do you have a plan for training during this down time?


#15

[quote]tnw886 wrote:

Didn’t think you were being a dick at all, just trying to figure this out (computer is covered in sticky notes).

[/quote]

What I mean is I could tell you what I would try but if you went ahead without understanding how to deal with things that crop up and how to recover you’d probably get yourself in difficulties. So research how to use an Aromatase Inhibitor to lower Estrogen levels and how to run PCT and how to deal with gyno quick if symptoms arise during cycle etc. As another poster mentioned it’s very important to get your hormone levels checked before you start AAS as you need to know your hormonal baseline in order to assess your recovery at the end of cycle.

Very few doctors know about this stuff. My endo doesn’t even have a clue. But a good doctor should help you with getting the blood tests you need.

Steroids can help endurance. It all depends on how you train.

Not sure I understand. You want a boost in endurance for the third week? AAS will allow you to train for endurance as you normally do with better results. If you want an endurance boost for a week then EPO is going to be more appropriate.

[quote]

Right now it seems that SUS250 would let me dose every 3 weeks, test enanthate every seven days, and equipoise would also be every seven days as well. From what I’ve read, they must be taken with a SERM or AI. Are these also dosed weekly? Or must I add these in more often?[/quote]

This is what you need to research. Pull bloods before you start to establish a baseline. An AI will stop estrogen overproduction(too much aromatisation) on cycle and a SERM can be used to deal quickly with gyno symptoms(binds to estrogen receptors in breast tissue preventing estrogen from binding) and is also used during PCT to aid recovery. Just google it and do some research. I’m happy to advise but it’s in your interests to know this stuff yourself.


#16

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]tnw886 wrote:

Didn’t think you were being a dick at all, just trying to figure this out (computer is covered in sticky notes).

[/quote]

What I mean is I could tell you what I would try but if you went ahead without understanding how to deal with things that crop up and how to recover you’d probably get yourself in difficulties. So research how to use an Aromatase Inhibitor to lower Estrogen levels and how to run PCT and how to deal with gyno quick if symptoms arise during cycle etc. As another poster mentioned it’s very important to get your hormone levels checked before you start AAS as you need to know your hormonal baseline in order to assess your recovery at the end of cycle.

Very few doctors know about this stuff. My endo doesn’t even have a clue. But a good doctor should help you with getting the blood tests you need.

Steroids can help endurance. It all depends on how you train.

Not sure I understand. You want a boost in endurance for the third week? AAS will allow you to train for endurance as you normally do with better results. If you want an endurance boost for a week then EPO is going to be more appropriate.

Thanks - working on it. Most things that I search for have pages of results saying “use the search button” so I appreciate the actual response. I wanted to go with AI instead of SERM when possible to take it easier on my liver.

As far as what I said about injecting on a Sunday, by Thursday or Friday will I still be reaping the benefits of it? I have a great crit, and am aerobically fit so I guess endurance is secondary to faster recovery. Also, wouldn’t mind avoiding the EPO because I know I will be substantially dehydrated. I would be fine with bi-weekly injections as well.

Do any of you guys have experience with solely prescription HGH or TRT?


#17

You might want to read up on things like “Endurobol” - I wouldn’t touch this as it’s linked with cancer but that’s up to you. ITPP - looks interesting. But I can’t offer any advice on that as I have no experience with those compounds.


#18

[quote]tnw886 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i’d suggest getting bloodwork to see where your hormones levels are at.

you might need TRT, and that might be really effective for you… and if not, it’s always good to know your baseline prior to your cycle.

i second the recommendation to scale back your training, as well…[/quote]

What specific hormones would be useful? I can provide results now. From what I had read, it seemed like going the AAS route instead of TRT would give me the same results and more.[/quote]

This is what I got before my first cycle:

Cortisol 11PM Saliva Test

Serum:
Cortisol Binding Globulin
DHEA
TSH
T3
T4
Testosterone total, free + weakly bound
SHBG
FSH
LH
Estradiol
Estrone
Estriol
Progesterone
Prolactin

Not sure how much you’re covered for / can afford but if you want to do things safely you could also test liver function, lipids and even an echo ultra sound to have a cardiac baseline to see if your heart grows. That’s what I did. I also take pulse and blood pressure + blood glucose readings and check complete blood count to observe haemoglobin on cycle.


#19

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]tnw886 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i’d suggest getting bloodwork to see where your hormones levels are at.

you might need TRT, and that might be really effective for you… and if not, it’s always good to know your baseline prior to your cycle.

i second the recommendation to scale back your training, as well…[/quote]

What specific hormones would be useful? I can provide results now. From what I had read, it seemed like going the AAS route instead of TRT would give me the same results and more.[/quote]

This is what I got before my first cycle:

Cortisol 11PM Saliva Test

Serum:
Cortisol Binding Globulin
DHEA
TSH
T3
T4
Testosterone total, free + weakly bound
SHBG
FSH
LH
Estradiol
Estrone
Estriol
Progesterone
Prolactin

Not sure how much you’re covered for / can afford but if you want to do things safely you could also test liver function, lipids and even an echo ultra sound to have a cardiac baseline to see if your heart grows. That’s what I did. I also take pulse and blood pressure + blood glucose readings and check complete blood count to observe haemoglobin on cycle.[/quote]

Thanks, there are some things in there I haven’t had done. Not too worried about the cost of any of this. Out of curiosity, what kind of cost will I be looking at for the actual gear? Also, apologies in advance if I post things multiple times, but I can’t remember what my last post included and it hasn’t posted yet because of the delay.

I have a history of getting bloodwork done, and I think that my overtraining has really had an enormous effect. Once I successfully complete this block, I’m really going to focus on more appropriate training. I’ve had total test range from the low 300’s to mid 600’s, with it settling back in the low 400’s. Free test has ranged from 4.2-12.0 and it is currently settled at 8.0. SHBG has ranged from 36.1 to 44.4 and is currently at 35.5. I know some of these numbers are “within range”, but I know how I’ve felt at my best and I know how I should feel. Same issue with cortisol - my best training was done at the 17 ballpark, but when I would get super broken down it would skyrocket into the 24-26 range, then after spending too much time there it would plummet to about 3 which is generally when I had difficult even completing a workout.


#20

Maybe look into TRT instead of AAS. But a good price for a vial of test 250mg per ml / 10ml is around $50. Similar price for Deca. I buy cheap pharma ampoules 100mg per ml too.