First Time Muay Thai

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
I don’t want to discourage you my friend… but learning muay thai techniques for you will be just waisting time… with your body weight and experience lifting heavy weights forget about MT… However, you can still be a decent fighter on the street if you really want to, you just have to find your own style that suits your huge muscular body… basically all you need just to be mean, practice defend your chin with elbows, and a quick explosive move forward in order to grab your opponent, then headbutt and by using your big mass and strength take him down on the ground and so on…

actually, some aikido lessons might also help you, I know some huge bouncers have been taught basic aikido stuff quite successfully. While sambo, BJJ, boxing, muay thai isn’t for you… but you can still win against them in the street fight with no rules, especially if they are at least 45 pounds lighter than you. You just have to have a fighters spirit in yourself and be mean when it needed… Powerlifting and bodybuilding aren’t that useless for a street fight as some people would think, you just have to be a fighter in yourself and have desire to crush your opponent. But in any circumstances don’t go to exchange punches or kicks - that will be unpleasant experience for you. Just ask your friend to punch you a little and kick you, so you can practice that elbow defense and slightly get used to kicks.

Hope my advice will will help you. [/quote]

He’s not trying to become a street fighter, he started MT out of interest and for conditioning purposes. But good to see you read the initial post.
[/quote]

Indeed. Not everybody takes up combat sports because they want to be the baddest mo fo around in the highly unlikely event of a street fight.

Here is a link to a thread that opens with a video that is one of the more inspirational, uplifting things I’ve seen posted on this board. I would encourage Dahollow and anyone else in need of a “pep talk” to give it a watch,

Cliche as it sounds, at the end of the day the real battles are fought and won inside ourselves.

[quote]idaho wrote:
Let me make sure I understand what you are saying: You went to your FIRST class and you sparred full contact? No lessons? No fundamentals in Stance? Guard? Blocking? Striking?, is that correct? Just walked right into the gym and start fighting?

If that is correct: Then your “friends” and the instructor responsible are nothing but assholes. No instructor worth a shit, would ever allow a novice to be treated in such a stupid manner. You were used as a punching bag. Disgraceful and extremely unprofessional. Find a better place to learn and train. [/quote]

Could not agree more. Even with your past experience and being physically strong your “friends/teammates” should have spent time on the basics (jab, cross, teep/push/round kicks etc), then combos/drills. I think having a good instructor is integral part of how we learn to love our sport - for whatever reasons you’re doing it for.

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
I don’t want to discourage you my friend… but learning muay thai techniques for you will be just waisting time… with your body weight and experience lifting heavy weights forget about MT… However, you can still be a decent fighter on the street if you really want to, you just have to find your own style that suits your huge muscular body… basically all you need just to be mean, practice defend your chin with elbows, and a quick explosive move forward in order to grab your opponent, then headbutt and by using your big mass and strength take him down on the ground and so on…

actually, some aikido lessons might also help you, I know some huge bouncers have been taught basic aikido stuff quite successfully. While sambo, BJJ, boxing, muay thai isn’t for you… but you can still win against them in the street fight with no rules, especially if they are at least 45 pounds lighter than you. You just have to have a fighters spirit in yourself and be mean when it needed… Powerlifting and bodybuilding aren’t that useless for a street fight as some people would think, you just have to be a fighter in yourself and have desire to crush your opponent. But in any circumstances don’t go to exchange punches or kicks - that will be unpleasant experience for you. Just ask your friend to punch you a little and kick you, so you can practice that elbow defense and slightly get used to kicks.

Hope my advice will will help you. [/quote]

Thanks, but I’m not into streetfights. I’m a laid back guy. Sure I have my size, but I’ve never actually used it against someone. Next to that, I can’t afford a criminal record :wink:

In MMA ground work, I can indeed use my bodyweight and strength more. But I’m not a quitter and I’ll try to find me a better partner to practice with.

Thanks for the info guys :slight_smile:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

Indeed. Not everybody takes up combat sports because they want to be the baddest mo fo around in the highly unlikely event of a street fight.

Here is a link to a thread that opens with a video that is one of the more inspirational, uplifting things I’ve seen posted on this board. I would encourage Dahollow and anyone else in need of a “pep talk” to give it a watch,

Cliche as it sounds, at the end of the day the real battles are fought and won inside ourselves. [/quote]

Thanks man! Very moving to see this guy.

[quote]Dahollow wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
I don’t want to discourage you my friend… but learning muay thai techniques for you will be just waisting time… with your body weight and experience lifting heavy weights forget about MT… However, you can still be a decent fighter on the street if you really want to, you just have to find your own style that suits your huge muscular body… basically all you need just to be mean, practice defend your chin with elbows, and a quick explosive move forward in order to grab your opponent, then headbutt and by using your big mass and strength take him down on the ground and so on…

actually, some aikido lessons might also help you, I know some huge bouncers have been taught basic aikido stuff quite successfully. While sambo, BJJ, boxing, muay thai isn’t for you… but you can still win against them in the street fight with no rules, especially if they are at least 45 pounds lighter than you. You just have to have a fighters spirit in yourself and be mean when it needed… Powerlifting and bodybuilding aren’t that useless for a street fight as some people would think, you just have to be a fighter in yourself and have desire to crush your opponent. But in any circumstances don’t go to exchange punches or kicks - that will be unpleasant experience for you. Just ask your friend to punch you a little and kick you, so you can practice that elbow defense and slightly get used to kicks.

Hope my advice will will help you. [/quote]

Thanks, but I’m not into streetfights. I’m a laid back guy. Sure I have my size, but I’ve never actually used it against someone. Next to that, I can’t afford a criminal record :wink:

In MMA ground work, I can indeed use my bodyweight and strength more. But I’m not a quitter and I’ll try to find me a better partner to practice with.

Thanks for the info guys :slight_smile:
[/quote]

That’s fine:) I am not into street fights, and I can’t afford to have a conviction either. Probably you are the lucky one living very safe and peaceful life… It just happens, wether I am somewhere in Europe or in America I come across a lot of young aggressive drug addicts who can afford to attack me, and who can afford to have a criminal record indeed, and most of them would be even proud of this… and I try not to go out late in the evening on weekends… maybe because I am just not very big guy 5’11/180…??? I don’t know… probably they would not even try to attack you, I don’t know… Sorry for my advice…

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I still don’t believe you should be mucking around with combos in your first lesson. You should be shown the training circuit, be shown the proper punching and kicking technique. If you already understand that stuff or if you get the hang of it quickly, then you can go into pad work, really going at the bag and maybe some light sparring with the trainer when the trainer doesn’t try to take your head (or legs) off.

You need to get the rhythm of the gym and the trainer should guide you into that. If you’re getting hacked in half by much more advanced fighters then you’re not learning anything. And that’s a great way to get injured too.

EDIT: Pain from training does eventually subside over time. Especially from kicking and blocking with your shin. Always wrap your hands properly, because bust up knuckles not only suck the next day but could aggravate you as you grow older. And as a courtesy to your sparring partners and your hands, Use 16oz gloves. [/quote]

x2

I only speak from a boxing background, but no trainer I know would have a beginner doing anything more from blocking and throwing single shots in partner drills for a long time - probably at least a month or so of regular training, before combos are introduced. Even these are done under controlled circumstances, and you wouldn’t be doing anything until you had been shown how to throw and defend correctly.

There is no shame in not fancying another go at something like that. I would never have made it 14 years in the fight game if I had been beaten on like that by guys who should know better. Personally, I don’t need that kind of aggro in my life. If you feel the same, you wouldn’t be any kind of pussy for finding a different sport for conditioning. If you like the physical, BJJ is pretty cool, from the little experience I have of it, and you can go pretty hard without that much danger.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
I don’t want to discourage you my friend… but learning muay thai techniques for you will be just waisting time… with your body weight and experience lifting heavy weights forget about MT… However, you can still be a decent fighter on the street if you really want to, you just have to find your own style that suits your huge muscular body… basically all you need just to be mean, practice defend your chin with elbows, and a quick explosive move forward in order to grab your opponent, then headbutt and by using your big mass and strength take him down on the ground and so on…

actually, some aikido lessons might also help you, I know some huge bouncers have been taught basic aikido stuff quite successfully. While sambo, BJJ, boxing, muay thai isn’t for you… but you can still win against them in the street fight with no rules, especially if they are at least 45 pounds lighter than you. You just have to have a fighters spirit in yourself and be mean when it needed… Powerlifting and bodybuilding aren’t that useless for a street fight as some people would think, you just have to be a fighter in yourself and have desire to crush your opponent. But in any circumstances don’t go to exchange punches or kicks - that will be unpleasant experience for you. Just ask your friend to punch you a little and kick you, so you can practice that elbow defense and slightly get used to kicks.

Hope my advice will will help you. [/quote]

He’s not trying to become a street fighter, he started MT out of interest and for conditioning purposes. But good to see you read the initial post.
[/quote]

Indeed. Not everybody takes up combat sports because they want to be the baddest mo fo around in the highly unlikely event of a street fight.

Here is a link to a thread that opens with a video that is one of the more inspirational, uplifting things I’ve seen posted on this board. I would encourage Dahollow and anyone else in need of a “pep talk” to give it a watch,

Cliche as it sounds, at the end of the day the real battles are fought and won inside ourselves. [/quote]

Oh yea:) all pussies and homosexuals also fight their battles inside themselves:)… while the fighters inside fight with himself is a completely different thing…

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
I don’t want to discourage you my friend… but learning muay thai techniques for you will be just waisting time… with your body weight and experience lifting heavy weights forget about MT… However, you can still be a decent fighter on the street if you really want to, you just have to find your own style that suits your huge muscular body… basically all you need just to be mean, practice defend your chin with elbows, and a quick explosive move forward in order to grab your opponent, then headbutt and by using your big mass and strength take him down on the ground and so on…

actually, some aikido lessons might also help you, I know some huge bouncers have been taught basic aikido stuff quite successfully. While sambo, BJJ, boxing, muay thai isn’t for you… but you can still win against them in the street fight with no rules, especially if they are at least 45 pounds lighter than you. You just have to have a fighters spirit in yourself and be mean when it needed… Powerlifting and bodybuilding aren’t that useless for a street fight as some people would think, you just have to be a fighter in yourself and have desire to crush your opponent. But in any circumstances don’t go to exchange punches or kicks - that will be unpleasant experience for you. Just ask your friend to punch you a little and kick you, so you can practice that elbow defense and slightly get used to kicks.

Hope my advice will will help you. [/quote]

What a HUMONGOUS crock of shit. Muay Thai techniques a waste for a big guy? where did you come up with this bullshit. Yeah Muay Thai has a few high kicks and stresses flexibility and speed but saying a big guy can’t learn this stuff is just plain dumb. There are people doing much harder martial arts and tricks at the op’s size.

Scott Adkins: Yuri Boyka The Most Complete Fighter In The World ® - YouTube (Not as big as op but at his size does very hard kicks with little effort)

Michael Jai White: Michael Jai White Takes No Prisoners in HD! - YouTube (Has been bigger than the op and does a great deal of Tae Kwon Do kicks effortlessly)

Lateef Crowder: Lateef Crowder - YouTube (Not the same as the previous two guys he is more a stunt guy/tumbler)

I won’t even mention the countless heavy weight fighters in MMA that have all been trained in Muay Thai.

Please think and do research next time you spew out such garbage advice. Your way of thinking is why so many retards think bodybuilders are “unfunctional” whatever that even means.

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
I don’t want to discourage you my friend… but learning muay thai techniques for you will be just waisting time… with your body weight and experience lifting heavy weights forget about MT… However, you can still be a decent fighter on the street if you really want to, you just have to find your own style that suits your huge muscular body… basically all you need just to be mean, practice defend your chin with elbows, and a quick explosive move forward in order to grab your opponent, then headbutt and by using your big mass and strength take him down on the ground and so on…

actually, some aikido lessons might also help you, I know some huge bouncers have been taught basic aikido stuff quite successfully. While sambo, BJJ, boxing, muay thai isn’t for you… but you can still win against them in the street fight with no rules, especially if they are at least 45 pounds lighter than you. You just have to have a fighters spirit in yourself and be mean when it needed… Powerlifting and bodybuilding aren’t that useless for a street fight as some people would think, you just have to be a fighter in yourself and have desire to crush your opponent. But in any circumstances don’t go to exchange punches or kicks - that will be unpleasant experience for you. Just ask your friend to punch you a little and kick you, so you can practice that elbow defense and slightly get used to kicks.

Hope my advice will will help you. [/quote]

What a HUMONGOUS crock of shit. Muay Thai techniques a waste for a big guy? where did you come up with this bullshit. Yeah Muay Thai has a few high kicks and stresses flexibility and speed but saying a big guy can’t learn this stuff is just plain dumb. There are people doing much harder martial arts and tricks at the op’s size.

Scott Adkins: Yuri Boyka The Most Complete Fighter In The World ® - YouTube (Not as big as op but at his size does very hard kicks with little effort)

Michael Jai White: Michael Jai White Takes No Prisoners in HD! - YouTube (Has been bigger than the op and does a great deal of Tae Kwon Do kicks effortlessly)

Lateef Crowder: Lateef Crowder - YouTube (Not the same as the previous two guys he is more a stunt guy/tumbler)

I won’t even mention the countless heavy weight fighters in MMA that have all been trained in Muay Thai.

Please think and do research next time you spew out such garbage advice. Your way of thinking is why so many retards think bodybuilders are “unfunctional” whatever that even means.
[/quote]

I apologize for my wrong advice… seems neither this guy, nor other people liked it:)… I will leave him to find out himself… and when he wins an official muay thai fight, I will apologize one more time… anyone can kick bags or push air and call it muay thai… and nowadays this combat sport in west culture has also been turned into commercial aerobic exercise to make it more suitable for pussies and homosexuals… it’s not necessarily bad… jus saying… But I still believe that bodybuilders are unfunctional:)) Heavyweight fighter with bigger muscles isn’t necessarily a bodybuilder though.

Then what the hell are you doing on this website 1 and 2 How did those heavy weight fighters with bigger muscles obtain the bigger muscles? Hopes and dreams? They do train for hypertrophy and eat for it which is…wait for it…bodybuilding. All three guys in the above videos bodybuild AND do their chosen martial arts/sports.

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

Then what the hell are you doing on this website 1 and 2 How did those heavy weight fighters with bigger muscles obtain the bigger muscles? Hopes and dreams? They do train for hypertrophy and eat for it which is…wait for it…bodybuilding. All three guys in the above videos bodybuild AND do their chosen martial arts/sports. [/quote]

I have several answers for you. First of all, look on youtube, there is one of Mike Tyson’s amateur fights when he was only 16 y.o., and then you get an idea that real heavyweights were being born, and not being made… 2) All of those functional conditioning exercises used in fighters’ routines like battling ropes, explosive pushups, pull ups, medical ball throws, skipping rope etc, etc…in high volume… and heavy bag, pads work with 14- 16 oz gloves + decent diet with enough protein, and believe me, lots of guys with time develop quite muscular looking bodies… of course very functional muscles for fighting in this case… while some of them cannot afford having too much meat on them because they need to fit into weight classes and stay competitive, but you get an idea and differences form bodybuilding.

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

Then what the hell are you doing on this website 1 and 2 How did those heavy weight fighters with bigger muscles obtain the bigger muscles? Hopes and dreams? They do train for hypertrophy and eat for it which is…wait for it…bodybuilding. All three guys in the above videos bodybuild AND do their chosen martial arts/sports. [/quote]

Hey, by the way, showing me those videos of actors and artists doesn’t count:)) I am not 13 y.o who believes in those Shwarzenegger, Stalone… movies, and then goes to kick trees in the park:))

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

Then what the hell are you doing on this website 1 and 2 How did those heavy weight fighters with bigger muscles obtain the bigger muscles? Hopes and dreams? They do train for hypertrophy and eat for it which is…wait for it…bodybuilding. All three guys in the above videos bodybuild AND do their chosen martial arts/sports. [/quote]

I have several answers for you. First of all, look on youtube, there is one of Mike Tyson’s amateur fights when he was only 16 y.o., and then you get an idea that real heavyweights were being born, and not being made… 2) All of those functional conditioning exercises used in fighters’ routines like battling ropes, explosive pushups, pull ups, medical ball throws, skipping rope etc, etc…in high volume… and heavy bag, pads work with 14- 16 oz gloves + decent diet with enough protein, and believe me, lots of guys with time develop quite muscular looking bodies… of course very functional muscles for fighting in this case… while some of them cannot afford having too much meat on them because they need to fit into weight classes and stay competitive, but you get an idea and differences form bodybuilding.
[/quote]

Mike Tyson lifted weights…by 16 he was already benching over 400 lbs (As proclaimed by coach). Not to mention the fact that his diet resembled closely that of a bodybuilder on a bulking cycle.

Not a 13 year old kid? Your comments do nothing but prove otherwise. You come off as some unknowledgeable jackass, martial artists wanna be that tells people martial artists at 150-160 lbs. are functional and the bodybuilders can’t do anything. When the fact is almost every heavy weight fighter in any discipline practices bodybuilding. I don’t know of many fighters in the heavy weight category in MMA that don’t do bodybuilding and a very large percentage of those guys learn Muay Thai.

To answer the OPs original question. This was your first class and sounds like you did extra drills that most people don’t normally do on the first day. It’s pretty normal to be sore in an area after a class even if the drills were light in contact. It gets better with time.

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

Then what the hell are you doing on this website 1 and 2 How did those heavy weight fighters with bigger muscles obtain the bigger muscles? Hopes and dreams? They do train for hypertrophy and eat for it which is…wait for it…bodybuilding. All three guys in the above videos bodybuild AND do their chosen martial arts/sports. [/quote]

I have several answers for you. First of all, look on youtube, there is one of Mike Tyson’s amateur fights when he was only 16 y.o., and then you get an idea that real heavyweights were being born, and not being made… 2) All of those functional conditioning exercises used in fighters’ routines like battling ropes, explosive pushups, pull ups, medical ball throws, skipping rope etc, etc…in high volume… and heavy bag, pads work with 14- 16 oz gloves + decent diet with enough protein, and believe me, lots of guys with time develop quite muscular looking bodies… of course very functional muscles for fighting in this case… while some of them cannot afford having too much meat on them because they need to fit into weight classes and stay competitive, but you get an idea and differences form bodybuilding.
[/quote]

Mike Tyson lifted weights…by 16 he was already benching over 400 lbs (As proclaimed by coach). Not to mention the fact that his diet resembled closely that of a bodybuilder on a bulking cycle.

Not a 13 year old kid? Your comments do nothing but prove otherwise. You come off as some unknowledgeable jackass, martial artists wanna be that tells people martial artists at 150-160 lbs. are functional and the bodybuilders can’t do anything. When the fact is almost every heavy weight fighter in any discipline practices bodybuilding. I don’t know of many fighters in the heavy weight category in MMA that don’t do bodybuilding and a very large percentage of those guys learn Muay Thai.

To answer the OPs original question. This was your first class and sounds like you did extra drills that most people don’t normally do on the first day. It’s pretty normal to be sore in an area after a class even if the drills were light in contact. It gets better with time.[/quote]

I would appreciate if you point me to the link with reliable information that Tyson did bodybuilding… I know that Cus D’amato and other coaches didn’t allow him to lift anything heavy at all, and just people say that he lifted weights here and there when he was already in jail, and there is one video Tyson lifting some not very heavy weights in a commercial gym when his boxing career was already over. I know MMA fighters brothers Emelianenko say they lift weights, but they don’t look like they do at all, and after watching lots of videos about their training I am still yet to see them lifting, so no one knows… when I was in a boxing team we didn’t lift any weights because it wasn’t part of our training. In muay thai camps in Thailand no one does bodybuilding, and no one has doubts that they know what they are doing in their training. However, I have lifted heavy weights quite seriously at two stages in my life, and actually was involved and liked it a lot. Now I don’t lift heavy barbells because I work out different ways and on other things.

I have nothing against bodybuilders, and I have close friends who are real bodybuilders… So, even though you don’t like it, I know what I am talking about. Some bodybuilders who manage to find some spare time for other routines are slightly more functional that those who can’t find time for that, but in general bodybuilding doesn’t get along well with martial arts…

I was so hoping we could have another discussion about whether weightlifting/bodybuilding is useful for fighters. That hasn’t been done to death on this board at all and is completely relevant to the topic…

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I was so hoping we could have another discussion about whether weightlifting/bodybuilding is useful for fighters. That hasn’t been done to death on this board at all and is completely relevant to the topic…[/quote]

Very well PMED.

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I was so hoping we could have another discussion about whether weightlifting/bodybuilding is useful for fighters. That hasn’t been done to death on this board at all and is completely relevant to the topic…[/quote]

Agreed.

This is the Combat Forum, which in simple terms, means people discussing various styles and methods of fighting, either for sport, combat, or street defense.

There appear to be many avenues here on this website to discuss bodybuilding and powerlifting. This isnt the bodybuilding “lite” forum. So, I am sure you can find an outlet for your barbell questions, but, IT IS NOT THIS FORUM. The OP asked a question concerning MT TRAINING, not your opinion on what works and what doesnt, whether you should lift or not, but, a question on TRAINING. Take your bodybuilding questions and opinions to the correct forum.

Just felt like quoting a friend (athletic, 5’11 150lbs dude, been training MA for most of his life, doing Muay Thai now):

“So I guess Germany’s been breeding super soldiers in the past few years. Just got my ass handed to me by some guy who’s pushing 2 meters (I seriously think he was 2 meters) and weighed 98 kgs of full on muscle. Not to mention he was fucking clean as hell, beautiful technique. It was like a German Sagat… I’m just happy to have lasted 5 rounds against him and sparred someone normal after. Feel like I got hit by a truck…”

But yeah, anybody who’s heavier than 180 will be a punching bag in the ring.

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I was so hoping we could have another discussion about whether weightlifting/bodybuilding is useful for fighters. That hasn’t been done to death on this board at all and is completely relevant to the topic…[/quote]

Agreed.

This is the Combat Forum, which in simple terms, means people discussing various styles and methods of fighting, either for sport, combat, or street defense.

There appear to be many avenues here on this website to discuss bodybuilding and powerlifting. This isnt the bodybuilding “lite” forum. So, I am sure you can find an outlet for your barbell questions, but, IT IS NOT THIS FORUM. The OP asked a question concerning MT TRAINING, not your opinion on what works and what doesnt, whether you should lift or not, but, a question on TRAINING. Take your bodybuilding questions and opinions to the correct forum. [/quote]

…or failing that, at the very least take it to on of the 3-4 threads active on this board a any given time about if fighters should lift and how. However, I think I prefer your suggestion.

I’m not sure what muscle body builders train that improves their ability to whine, but hypertrophy is definitely being achieved in that respect. Some of these big guys make like lifting weights is the fucking silver bullet of all sporting shortcomings.

Returning to the op, when I started doing martial arts it was Whin chun Kung fu. The first day I tried it I nearly puked from all the push ups. Some people argued that the instructor went too far. In reality, he showed me what I could expect and what my short coming was. The school eased us into sparring and if you felt like shit, you could sit down. Ultimately I craved more sparring and left, but had I just been bludgeoned first day in I might not be continuing my families boxing tradition and would never have done Muay Thai in Thailand. A rewarding future in martial arts, rgardless of level or career aspirations, should be the result of your first impression. Not a bust up shin and black eye. Bust up shins and black eyes are for later.